Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 04 May 2014 18:17:49 GMT

Anon Come back and tell us how tiu're getting on

Wynne

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Adrienne McPartland — Sat, 03 May 2014 22:22:41 GMT

I know I'm very late to this thread but came across it this evening.

I am very glad that you have been strong enough to come to this forum with the thoughts you have shown, has shown a lot of strength and courage. I hope you're doing well now and would love to hear an update.

I personally went through a very similar situation with my 2nd job, I only stuck at that one for a number of months but since then found a small supportive practice which has allowed me to grow considerably. I went through all of the emotions that you described and felt worthless, useless, incompetent and seriously considered my choice of profession. I have since found my confidence again, and given the right practice and right colleagues it is very possible to come through these self doubts. This bad experience had made me think I would never work in mainland UK again (Im a Dublin graduate) and have since worked in Northern Ireland, but with my new found confidence and experience, I have just accepted a small animal internship in the UK.

Sorry for the ramblings, but with the right practice and right people you will be a great vet. Keep the faith :)

Please feel free to PM me if you want to chat.

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Shams Mir — Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:53:19 GMT

Dear Anon,

Sorry, I didn't get to see your post earlier.

As much pain I felt to read your story, so much heartened I feel to sense the uprightness and strength of your character, even though personally you have felt so lowly.

As much as I sense you could turn out to become a very competent vet, so much I loathe the incompetence of your first employer.

You have been given incredibly good advice in all the above posts starting from the very first one and I hope you benefit from them.

At my personal level, I will be happy to welcome you to my practice for as many sessions as you like to help you regain YOUR confidence that has been trampled by your first employer. My practice is based in West Lancashire.

Hold your nerve, I'm sure you are capable of achieving a lot.

Good luck

Shams

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Rory Bell — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 20:13:10 GMT

Hello Anon

Another person offering sympathy. Michaels advice was absolutely spot on. Nobody can fix anything, and everyone has periods of self doubt. That is part of the job. As everyone above has pointed out however, how you were introduced to this in your first practice sounds horrendous.

If you'd like to come and visit then you would be more than welcome. I'll bet i can prove that you know more about SA internal medicine than you think you do!

PM me if you'd like.

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Gareth C. — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 20:08:15 GMT

i agree with what most other people have said, but i wouldnt 100% blame your employer, maybe 75%.

may advice would be to find a quiet practice to work in for a year or so. you dont sound like you need another high stress busy place or somewhere doing amazing referral level stuff. You could do with a 6month stint or so in a quiet rural practice with loyal clients. no on call might be a bonus bit as long as there is support oohrs

keep running too

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Kate Richardson — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 15:29:19 GMT

Another one gob smacked at how you were treated in your first job, and your employers should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

You should be very proud of yourself for getting through this awful period to where you are now, and it shows an enormous amount of personal strength.

Really really wish you good luck, try not to be too much of a perfectionist, we all are, but learn to say to yourself 'I did the best I could at that particular time, on that particular day, under those particular circumstances'. That is the best that any of us can do.

Based in Wiltshire if of any help, please message me if location right as may know of something that could be of interest to you....

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Nicola Lawlor — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 15:07:50 GMT

Hi Anon

For sure the first year is very hard when you are out there and I will not lie the stress goes on, but it gets easier to deal with. As pretty much everyone else has said here, your first employer did you no favours at all with the way they did not support you and the hours you were expected to work and responsibilities you were given without any back up or by the sounds of it even good feedback. Your stress levels have therefore been extraordinary from the sound of things and it is little wonder you have reached the position where you really are not sure if this career is for you.

I am so glad you are now away from there and feeling like you are ready to consider how to move on. Again, it has already been said but to me you sound like a good vet. You may not feel that way but your caring and conscientious attitude mean a HUGE amount in terms of the delivery of your skills. The worrying people are those who think they know everything, ask nothing and jump in feet first without looking and thinking.

I certainly think that the offers of help are worth taking up - see a variety of practices this way and how people work and handle other members of staff and how they handle clients. You will build up an idea of the sort of place you would like to be and then you will be able to start the job hunt for an appropriate job where the staff matter to the clinic. I have had some experiences where the management of a previously well run clinic has gone horribly wrong and second time around I couldn't get out fast enough really. It was for me the right thing to move on and find a clinic where I felt appreciated and could do my job properly. I can't even begin to explain how low I felt after leaving one job - I never wanted to be a vet again, and didn't infact for a few months until I had got the stress out of my system. I then moved onto another clinic where things were well run, I fitted in well and realised that this was what my job should be about and that I was enjoying my profession again after all. So - don't assume that everything is down to you and how you handle stress and vet life. SO much is about the support you are given, not just by other vets but by the managers and the support staff too. There are good jobs out there that you will enjoy and hopefully that career you pictured can still be a happy reality.

Good luck with things.

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Rebekah Robinson — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 13:59:42 GMT

Lots of great advice. Have you thought about the BVA support services, their are a few links here http://www.vetlife.org.uk/crisis. They have a vet helpline which may be able to just listen to your concerns. I got there number last year as I was in a low moment. I know in the UK there us the new grad support programme too, why not have a chat to them. A lot is to do with the support you have from your boss/bosses. I think working on the areas you feel anxiety would help, every surgery success you have will build your confidence. Some of us have to work hard at this right through our careers, it's not just a new grad experience. Volunteer for a few days at clinics that have rspca/ cats protection/ other charity work if you can. I've not worked for the PDSA but the high volume coming through the door may put a time pressure on you that will just make things worse. As for a full time job, try to find somewhere that won't have you on the night rota initially, or who use an out of hours provider or who have dedicated night staff. The practice where I work took on a vet a few years ago who was feeling very fragile after her first job, they were super supportive and really took her under their wing. Most of all, write things done, read about other people's experiences and talk about your feelings - you aren't alone in your feelings. Our profession does attract high achievers and the challenges, expectations, hours, everything really, can get many of us down. Keep us posted :)

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Bob Russell — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 13:56:36 GMT

I find it hard to believe any practice would act in this way! Love to know who it is!!

Take advantage of one of these offers.

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Rebekah Robinson — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 13:41:43 GMT

[quote user="Holly Dale"]

Like I said, I'm based in Peterborough, if you'd like a few days seeing practice and some confidence-giving surgery/consult days we're here. Feel freee to message me if this would help.

[/quote] A lovely gesture, I hope the offer is taken up

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 11:43:15 GMT

Try to have a personal chat with either a veterinary surgeon you saw practice with, or one of the clinical staff at uni who you got on with. They can give you some personal morale boosting, based on what they know you're capable of.

Wynne

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Anne Seawright — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 04:36:54 GMT

I read this thinking I could have written something very similar when I first graduated. You should be so proud of yourself. You have insight into your strengths and weaknesses (a thing a lot of people lack) and you had the strength to get out. That isn't easy to do as when you are in the situation you are convinced it is you and not the lack of support at your practice. I stayed for 2 years and it was the worst 2 years of my life, but I had been made to believe no one else would ever employ me. I luckily found my passion and niche and went back to university to do a residency and now a phd. If that hadn't come along I probably wouldn't still be in the profession (and I may not be alive) now. Interestingly, I locumed in a number of different practices whilst doing my residency. This absolutely terrified me, but to my amazement practices requested I came back and owners waited until I was in to be seen again. A position I never dreamed I would be in after feeling such a failure. But it wasn't me. It was the practice. And it isn't you. You need to have your confidence rebuilt but you have all the makings of a great vet. On the question of why practices take on new grads if they aren't willing to support them, I would really love to know. My practice prided themselves on being supportive (and telling me repeatedly just how supportive they were) whilst leaving me alone on my 2nd weekend in the job (with all other vets in the practice either out of the country or at the other end of the country) and telling me when I asked for help on how to do a procedure 'do it carefully' and then walking off. You have been given loads of offers of help from people in a better position than me but feel free to pm me if you just want a chat with someone who has been in the same position.

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Suzanne Kelly — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 00:43:28 GMT

Hi Anon, I'm 19 years qualified this year and I still remember the horrors and terror of that first year out. It gets better, it really does. That practice sounds horrible! I agree with everyone else, see a bit of practice and get a few ops done with supervision until you get your confidence up. The charity clinics abroad are a good idea. Bitch spays are a difficult surgery and once you get good at these you'll find other soft tissue surgery much easier.

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 23:17:22 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I was regularly putting in 70-80 hours a week at the practice. I was spending 90% of the day consulting[/quote]

I think my head would have blown off and splattered over the consult room walls. I work 40 hours a week and that is quite enough thank you. I feel a bit hard done by if I have to consult all day with no theatre time and I definitely feel more stressed/less well disposed towards humanity on those days if very busy, constantly being reminded by reception how many people are waiting and no time to get down the back and have a look at my inpatients.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I'd ask to be started off on routine neuters etc,[/quote]

Should've been happening from day one without you having to ask. My first half dozen bitch spays were supervised by a vet who was a good surgeon, a good teacher and who never once glanced at the clock or made impatient noises. (Thanks Kate!) Even so, when I did my first one completely solo, it took ages and I had a blinding headache by the end due to the ferocious concentration. My lovely boss fed me paracetamol and dispatched me to the pub for lunch complete with celebratory pint, with instructions to amble back up in my own sweet time as it wasn't a busy day.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"] informed me I could use some of my CPD budget to book time in the operating theatre with another member of staff[/quote]

What a shower. Did you have to pay them for the honour? Everyone knows new grads need a bit of babysitting - that is why they are cheap.

As for the future

- I'm sure I could add to the offer that others have made - we're in Belfast. any time that isn't vet college holidays should be good

- find out which practices do the work for the nearest Cats Protection branch, especially the ones doing lots of feral spay/neuters brought in by trappers

- for your next job, a big practice might be great but you can get a bit lost in some of them. My first job was a 3 man practice and was a great place to start - it was more about the ethos than anything

- might be totally wrong thing but...would you consider a job in the small animal section of a mixed practice? Some of them don't expect the SA vets to join the OOH rota for a long time, if ever, and if you felt like it you could ask to go on some easy-sounding LA calls to farmers known to be kind to new grads. Driving to and from calls is a nice pressure-release valve and IME the whole atmosphere in most mixed practices is less intense. Plus getting a year or two of mixed practice on your CV is essential if you ever want to be a department vet...a nice option to have open anyway

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

ChrisBVSc — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 23:03:12 GMT

[quote user="Heather J"]

If a practice can't cope with a new grad, why employ one??

[/quote]

I would LOVE some employers to come on here & answer this question. The number of times I've heard about inappropriate new grad employment (friends, friends of friends etc) makes me wonder what is the profession playing at if it can't properly regulate the support of its newest colleagues? I feel like I was one of the lucky ones, but finding a good supportive 1st job was exactly that, luck. But it's such an important stage of your career that it shouldn't be down to luck!

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Badger er — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 22:37:23 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Something else you need to accept is you are not perfect and never will be. Things will go wrong, nice animals owned by nice people will get horrid diseases and die despite your best efforts. You must start to learn from your experience but not beat yourself up over them. Worrying is not good for your mental state. There is nothing wrong with being 'ok' at something - come to accept that and life will get a million times easier. When you go home watch Hollyoaks or cuddle the dog. Don't do too much vet work at night - that time is yours.

[/quote]

Simple, obvious, and bang on the mark, Michael.

I sincerely hope that the OP can begin to accept that they were put into an unfair situation, and the way to move forward is to move on from this horrible experience. The profession is hard, we are all bonkers, and the OP most certainly deserves a fresh start in an environment more suited to her needs.

If a practice can't cope with a new grad, why employ one??

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 22:32:03 GMT

Another offer of help here. North Yorkshire in our case - feel free to come and see practice. And I'd like to reiterate the comments from Gillian and others, I'm glad you've handed your notice in and left. It is not you, it is the practice you have been working for. We have all been new graduates, and should all understand where you are coming from - those first few months are always scary, and support is what is needed. I was lucky or unlucky to have a very busy first job, but with three new graduates employed we at least had each other to moan too, and go to the pub with! Good luck.

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Yantha Smyth — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 21:34:18 GMT

Wow! Firstly I'd like to say good thing you have left there and thank you for sharing this with us. I would echo what a lot of the others have said about not giving up on being a vet just yet, and that what has happened to you is down to the total lack of support in your first job. The bit about you being offered to use your CPD budget to book time in theatre with others to get the support you should have been getting anyway!! That speaks volumes about the ethos of your employers. The other effect of doing soo much consulting with little or no time out the back is a) you are under more unrelenting time pressure alongside dealing with large numbers of characters (and their pets!), b) in likelihood generating a large volume of 'homework' due to the large case load, and feeling the need to 'read up' on them as well, given a lot of non-routine things may be unfamiliar to you and/or complicated, and c) probably little opportunity to follow selected cases through should they need procedures done. The suggestions of seeing practice for a bit I think could be really useful and it sounds like some people on this forum are willing and able to help out where they can. An issue that could arise if doing a charity trip is that depending on the set-up, it is likely to be sole-vet, so if problems arose there is unlikely to be any back-up. If you haven't done so already I would recommend contacting the vet surgeons health support programme as they can help in many ways, more than you would expect. I wish you the best in moving forward from this and leaving it far behind you!

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Julie Innes — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 21:23:46 GMT

Really feel for you anon. I still break out in a sweat when I remember my first year in practice- like you, I stressed about every single thing. And a bitch spay booked in for me meant no sleep from the night before it to 3 nights later. On call was a constant terror that I would be called to something tricky. It's not fun. And that's despite a supportive boss (although the 8th or 9th time I called him back from TB testing to check a bitch I was sure was bleeding aka oozing slightly he did seem a bit antsy...but he still came!)

did you see practice as a final year? I found I got to know my local practice really well in my seeing practice years, and they let me do ops under supervision- maybe you could go back to that, just to build your confidence a little. Wishing you all the best. We're in SCotland and you would be welcome to come and do some ops/ "seeing practice" with us if you are nearby.

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Glenn Hodgson — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 21:17:54 GMT

Good advice above.

Whatever you do you cant regularly put in 80 hour weeks and have a good ife, IMO. I suspect most of us here would crumble under those hours. I would.

reflect on your previous employer and chin up.

This type of experience is sadly too common.

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

ChrisBVSc — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 19:40:48 GMT

A supportive 1st job is extremely important, and unfortunately that's exactly what you haven't had. I think sometimes you may not realise this is the case at the time, due to it being the only practice you've worked in so far. I'm almost certain that working in a well run, supportive practice that gave you proper surgical experience and guidance would be an entirely different experience. Unfortunately based on what I've seen & heard, jobs like this can take some time to find. Probably the result of the profession mainly consisting of numerous small businesses, mostly owned and run by people with little or no business training and not enough time to do it properly. I have found the variability in the practices I've worked in and those of my friends quite shocking. I'm not trying to put you off, I'm just trying to point out the fact that the problem you've had is due to the practice and not you, and that good practices definitely do exist. Now you have some experience, you will be much more employable & can hopefully be much more selective about any future jobs. Do as much background research as you can about any future job offers, and don't be afraid to walk away if something doesn't seem right. I also agree with the suggestions of perhaps some charity neuter work - I did a couple of weeks of this abroad after qualifying, and it made a massive difference to my surgical confidence.

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Tim Charlesworth — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 19:31:29 GMT

Really sorry to hear that you've had such a rotten experience of a first job. Practice can be stressful but learning to cope with the stresses is an acquired skill and your first employer should have been more supportive and taken the time to allow you to consolidate what you learnt in vet school. I completely agree with the other posts here, don't blame yourself. Best to draw a line under the whole experience and try to start afresh. I'd be more than happy for you to come down/up to us and come into theatre for a few days if you want to boost your confidence in which case just email me and we'll sort something out (we're based in Swindon).

Best of luck,

Tim

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

bob lehner — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 19:26:08 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]and informed me I could use some of my CPD budget to book time in the operating theatre with another member of staff.[/quote]

I have to say this is one of the weirdest things I have heard in a long time - and if accurate is a very sorry reflection on the attitude of the bosses of that particular practice.

Very saddened to hear your story and totally agree with the good advice others have given to you here.

There are decent practices and supportive bosses out there - you've just got to find one that suits you.

Don't give up at this stage in your career - think of all those years of hard work to get to this stage - and that just by getting into vet school and then qualifying you are indeed someone special.

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 19:18:53 GMT

I can only firmly support what's been said; 'sink or swim' is a bad way to launch a new grad; the fact that it's 'all we ever knew' doesn't make it acceptable, and the fact that i had to 'sink or swim' as well doesn't make it right either; I had health issues from the stress as well.

You're not a bad vet. I promise you that. 80 hours a week is exhausting and unsafe, it would make St. Francis hand his letters back!

Re: Recent graduate struggling. Is it worth it?

Rob Reid — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 18:59:00 GMT

First of all - my sympathies to you and your situation. Glad to hear you're feeling better after some time off and well done for having the courage to share your problems.

You're not a bad vet at all and you certainly are employable. Think glass half full - you've seen a lot of cases in your first year, you've clearly got a strong work ethic and you're obviously an outgoing person if you try and pack in as much as you do outside of work! The only thing that's gone wrong for you is that you've been unlucky with your first employer - they've put excessive and unreasonable demands on you as a new graduate and failed in their duty to support you.

Everyone has offered good advice so far - you need to move job and look at gaining some more surgical experience. Sure, this job is tough and there are a lot of challenges to face, but trust me it should be a heck of a lot better than what you've had so far. And as with the others on here, you're more than welcome to drop me a PM if you want any further advice.