Abusive clients: poll

Re: Abusive clients: poll

bevs2251 — Fri, 14 Feb 2014 05:19:32 GMT

Hi from Ozland - have had the occasional one every few years. Depends a bit on the demographic. See it more with lower socio-economic demographics here (western Sydney, lower & upper Central Coast, NSW). Had it happen to me when I did a locum stint a couple of years ago. Young teenager & mother started swearing at me because xray machine not working & I couldn't xray their dog ! Old guy swore at me about prices when he brought in 2 dogs for vaccs & they weren't even his dogs (was being paid for by the owner, anyway) ! Same clinic swear-fest when owners asked to pay bill when came to pick up their dog after surgery for pelvic fractures - had to call cops for that one. Have also had young Welsh guy swear at me when I worked in UK many years ago. Basically, I tell them not to swear at me. I usually tell them to leave, or call the cops. I do stand up to them as I don't put up with any BS or chauvenistic behaviour. Often they threaten complaint to board. Usually reply to go right ahead as I haven't done anything wrong, & nothing ever comes of it. Would make a huge ruckus if I was reported to the board for swearing at a client, particularly if the rude, skanky low IQ types have already let loose with several F-bombs themselves !!

Unfortunately, these types of owners are everywhere from one side of the globe to the other !

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:35:59 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

It's a fact that countries which amputate people's hands for theft have a low rate of thieving - even though they're also poor countries.

[/quote]

Having lived in a country where this occurs, I can in fact categorically say this is NOT correct. Theft and crime very much exist in the Middle East; there is either great wealth or great poverty and pickpocketing is frequent. It is underreported because the local police are fairly useless.

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 13:17:16 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Can I come back to my question, which is whether you all think the results of Alex's poll are surprising?[/quote]

1) Close to the start I pointed out the pattern of OOH and charity clinics

2) On cycling holidays, you do get the occasional tricky individual, the problem here is that you are stuck with them for 2-3 weeks. The industry reckon that 1 in 100, you can't please regardless, so if you get abuse once a year as a vet that's not surprising. I take about 150 people a year and get a tricky individual every couple of years, however it's usually about managing expectations, which is similar to what people think we can do, as opposed to what we can actually do.

Neil

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 12:54:35 GMT

I haven't found that my gender causes more problems - I find it causes less! When someone's behaviour becomes unreasonable I tend to talk more quietly (they have to become quieter and calmer to be able to hear me) and adopt an assertive but 'open' manner. I have never had anyone become physically aggressive but on the odd occasion someone gets louder and more obnoxious I continue to say, quietly, that unless they stop shouting the conversation is finished. In my experience, it works!

In contrast, most of the men I have seen in similar situations (including Ian) get more and more angry (openly so) and their frustration and annoyance is obvious to everyone. Although their words are identical to mine, their body language speaks volumes and escalates the situation!!!

I guess what I'm saying is that your own personality, and the way you deal with these situations, is far more important than your sex!

I also think that many of our dear general public (although not all) find it easier to be nasty and aggressive with a man than with a woman. Testosterone has a lot to answer for!

Arlo - I am not surprised. I think if you talk to anyone who deals daily with the public, be they a vet, shelf stacker or air hostess, they'll deal with morons on a regular basis!!!!

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Anthony Dennison — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 10:36:36 GMT

I personally don't have a problem with violence, mainly I think due to my size and appearance (though I'm getting less black eyes from rugby now). It is probably more evident because there is a much higher number of small women graduating and working. I know 2 of the 3 new grad girls my practice employed last summer have been shouted at/abused at least once.

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 09:55:03 GMT

I think it has become the accepted norm for people to behave badly-------------- because the old absolutes between right and wrong have become non-PC.

Wynne

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Clive Ansell — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 09:45:17 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

Can I come back to my question, which is whether you all think the results of Alex's poll are surprising?

[/quote]

Yes, I'm surprised it is not more than the poll suggests. 45% rarely abused and 34% once a year or so, I though the figure would be much higher. Again, it depends where you work and when I've worked in charity clinics it is as David said a daily event.

I wonder how it compares to other professions or walks of life? When my mother was an NHS nurse, particularly working in A&E, verbal abuse and threats of violence were a daily occurrence. I know people who work in shops, bars and restaurants and they are verbally abused on a fairly regular basis too.

Maybe it has become a part of our culture, and is becoming the accepted norm for people to behave badly. When I turned on the TV news this morning they were talking about footballers and the sending of racist and abusive tweets and text messages.

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Bob Russell — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 09:28:13 GMT

If you believe miscarriages of justice are very, very rare then perhaps you should remove the rose tinted specs!

Over the years I have come to accept that both my father and grandfather were very wise men, both were convinced that 'the law is an ass'.

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 08:48:42 GMT

Can I come back to my question, which is whether you all think the results of Alex's poll are surprising?

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 08:47:34 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]Pedants' corner believes that the past tense of hang in this context is "hanged".[/quote]

Just testing.

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:38:13 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]

Or what about Tony Martin, the farmer who was jailed for shooting a burglar. He was part of the jail population for a time. Would you execute him?

[/quote]

I'd give him a medal.

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:20:49 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]We're going off at a bit of tangent here to the OP.[/quote]

The OP was about the perceived size of Alex's belly, wasn't it???!!!

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Harder to do so if you've hung someone for it[/quote]

Pedants' corner believes that the past tense of hang in this context is "hanged".

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Utlendigur — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:16:09 GMT

Or what about Tony Martin, the farmer who was jailed for shooting a burglar. He was part of the jail population for a time. Would you execute him?

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Hanna Bennett — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 20:44:14 GMT

Ok so miscarriages of justice - a female friend of mine was being harassed in a night club by a chap with some form of mental disability. he had been thrown out once by the bouncers but was let back in, and found her and her friend in a corner by the stage where there was no escape route. he had her friend by the throat so she punched him to get him off, forgetting she was holding a glass in the heat of the moment. she was arrested for GBH and the bouncers chose to tell the police she had hit him again in order to avoid blame for letting him back in. there was a witness statement from an independent female who stated that he had been harassing her before and that she witnessed the whole thing and my friend acted in self defence. despite this the case made it as far as crown court, at which point the CPS dropped the case due to the other witness. if my friend had not been determined to stand up for herself she could have been bullied into pleading guilty at an earlier stage. sitting at crown court waiting for two hours with her was terrifying, given she had the risk of a custodial sentence. Would you execute her Wynne if she'd pleaded guilty?

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Derek Lyon — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 20:23:48 GMT

That was true about the hamster episode. About 40 years ago?

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 20:01:44 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

I believe, some years ago, a vet was reprimanded by the RCVS (Or did I just made this up? ) for swearing in a consultation room after being bitten by a small furry.

[/quote]

As I recall, the hamster bit him and held on, he shook it off (no doubt swearing), it fell to the floor and unfortunately died. The suggestion in the complaint was that he deliberately hurled it to the floor and wasn't sorry it was dead.

I recall the time I was bitten by a donkey. I swore, more than once and quite inventively, as I circled the box in a crouching posture clutching the injured part. I sometimes think I'd almost welcome the opportunity to defend that to the DC

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:54:40 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

It's a fact that countries which amputate people's hands for theft have a low rate of thieving - even though they're also poor countries.

[/quote]

I’m sorry to break this to you at this time but you have referenced ‘eye for an eye’, etc... and your support for death penalty. Very dangerous territory, and as Gillian was saying, the world is unfortunately not as black and white as you put it.

You might not have studied law, but of the little that I remember, those are basics from the Hammurabi Code, from the Egyptians. In the same way as with medicine, the law has evolved from it because the Code was so simplistic that used to overlook common society problems.

The Egyptians that had their hand chopped, weren’t chopped because they were ‘bad people’. They were thieves because they were hungry and either not properly educated, mentally impaired or bullied from other layers of society (amongst other shortcomings). Hence the Hammurabi Code is not something that we do today.

Asking for these things to come back is like asking for some divine spirit to cure your animals. You know it is not going to happen, still some uneducated chose to believe it, because it is the easiest way to think. But you and I know: It is wrong.

Movies apart, people who murder are not afraid of being caught (and this had been studied, not giving you the reference now because, honestly, I can’t be bothered at this time at night). People who murder are not afraid of either spending their life in prison or getting the death penalty. Most aren’t elaborating a perfect plot to commit the perfect crime and not being caught.

Today, in the XXI century, we shouldn’t think that increasing sentences are going make people behave better, this is only media and populist sayings to get votes. Today, we should aim to avoid people from committing or wanting to commit murder in the first place.

I’ll give you an example from my own country: Domestic violence against women was in the increase, so they decided to increase sentences against men who hit women. Today a woman who hits a man will have to pay a fine, a man who hits a woman goes to prison. This had increased inequality between sexes, domestic violence, however, continues in the increase.

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Laurence Webb — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:01:46 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]by far the commonest miscarriage of justice is when someone is wrongly acquited[/quote]Do you have any statistics to support this?

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]It's a fact that countries which amputate people's hands for theft have a low rate of thieving [/quote]You are taking Iran and Saudi Arabi as models of justice to be followed? I fear Godwin's Law may come into play soon.

Re: Abusive clients: poll

KathW — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 18:38:19 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Arlo Miscarriages of justice are regrettable, but very very rare. Wynne

[/quote]

What about the Birmingham six, the Guilford four, Sally Clarke, Stefan Kiszko, - to name but a few who spring to mind.

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Linda Filshie — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 18:12:23 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Arlo Miscarriages of justice are regrettable, but very very rare. I've done a lot of prosecution work as a professional witness acting on behalf of the RSPCA. Take it from me,the rules of evidence/disclosure are so biased in favour of the defendant, that by far the commonest miscarriage of justice is when someone is wrongly acquited.

Wynne

[/quote]

ah those whole principles of "innocent until proven guilty" and "better a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent one goes to jail (or is executed)". Socialist plots, both of 'em!

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 18:08:10 GMT

It is very very rarely that I'll ever defend a socialist principle,but in this case I will - " The greatest good of the greatest many. " The vast majority of people don't want to break the law - they merely want to get on with their lives peacably free from all fear of crime.

The fact that this poll is being taken is all the proof necessary that currently they are not able to do so.

Wynne

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:57:44 GMT

I'm more cynical than you. I just can't see how else are the innocent victims to be protected. It's a fact that the per capita murder rate in this country was less when we had the death penalty. It's a fact that countries which amputate people's hands for theft have a low rate of thieving - even though they're also poor countries.

I think(hope )we're all basically law-abiding people, and our idea of a perfect society would be a safe one. It's just I don't thinkthings will ever improve by decent people wringing their hands over crime statistics, whilst the criminals just laugh at us - because they know we lack the politicalwill to hurt them in return.

Wynne

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:51:00 GMT

We're going off at a bit of tangent here to the OP.

Can I bring it back for a second, and ask what everyone's reaction is to the results of the poll. I was discussing them with Alex - whether the results are remarkable enough to warrant a release to the media.

I'm sitting on the fence at the moment. I mean, to me, it seems unremarkable that 1/3rd of vets will be at the receiving end of verbal abuse at least once a year. I guess A&E workers, nurses and doctors probably get it in the neck even more.

On the flip side, it is a bit shocking to think of 'James Herriot' (which is who you all are, of course), being on the receiving end of anything other than a cup of tea and a biscuit.

BTW Wynne, curious to know where you stand on miscarriages of justice, which I am sure you will accept are commonplace. Easier (though not always possible) to compensate for time wrongly spent banged up at her majesty's pleasure. Harder to do so if you've hung someone for it (whatever 'it' was).

Re: Abusive clients: poll

katja wagner — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:47:58 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Katja I care about the innocent, the victims who are currently ignored. It seems I'm the only one who does. Everyone else seems content (or resigned ) to allow them to continue suffering from crime.

Wynne

[/quote]

Wynne, it does not mean nobody else cares for the victims just because we don't want to bump all offenders.

katja

Re: Abusive clients: poll

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:38:23 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Wynne - it must be nice to live in your world. Right and wrong. Black and white. Criminals and law-abiding. Hard-working and benefits scrounger. All very straight-forward.

If only it were so simple.

[/quote]