RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

grumpyoldman — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:36:35 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]4-0pm on a Friday [I'll bet] a[/quote]

In my experience its usually a sunday ,and they agree to pay on the phone then give you the send us a bill routine after its gone to that kennel in the sky, they usually cough though when you refuse to take it with you till they stump up the readies .

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

grumpyoldman — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:36:28 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]4-0pm on a Friday [I'll bet] a[/quote]

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

grumpyoldman — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:20:15 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]I thought we were trying to get owners to bring their 75Kg Irish Wolfhound in to the vet, not the vet visiting the 75Kg Irish wolfhound???[/quote]

Thats true , but they do have a different mind set, you will often find that people with Wolfhounds ,Pyraneans, St Bernards ,Danes, Newfoundlands also have larger homes and horses and visiting is expected as if it were one of those horses, I think this maybe why they try and migrate toward mixed practices.

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Anthony Todd — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 17:33:56 GMT

[quote user="Christopher Saul"]Oh FFS this makes my blood boil[/quote]

Nah, doesn't bother me that much 'cos I realise that the "large dog" had been sick for a few days and deteriorating too, one partner had told the other that it should go to the vet urgently. Other partner couldn't be bothered or didn't want to pay until the anguish got too much so the "mandatory" visit was demanded at 4-0pm on a Friday [I'll bet] and the blame and distress neatly transferred to the long suffering vet and the long suffering nurse.

But, you see, home visits are perceived now to be mandatory.

Who amongst us is game to refuse a visit in the above circumstances in this unresolved climate????

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Christopher Saul — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 16:06:07 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]We actually had a client write quite a nasty letter of complaint to the practice after requesting a home visit to pts a large dog, in a house with a long flight of steep garden steps to the front door. The female vet and nurse who went out were quite small and slight and really struggled to move the dog - the client was upset that "the last memory of their pet was him being manhandled" out of the property [/quote]

Oh FFS this makes my blood boil. Perhaps they should compare their upsetting memories to those of our brave soldiers who come back from Afghanistan with their legs ripped off. It must have been tempting to tell them to get a grip.

I'm sure even Hannah, Michael and Gillian and the RCVS for that matter would agree that the responsibility of the vet is to prevent suffering of the patient, and does not extend to making sure that the owners are nicely wrapped in cotton wool.

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Anthony Todd — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 15:02:29 GMT

Makes my point very well; owners need to be aware of the responsibilities involved when they have large dogs and the powers that be should emphasise that responsibility and give helpful advice on, for example, the moving of large dogs when they are incapacitated.

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Utlendigur — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:54:58 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]That is an excellent point , trying to look professional while hauling a 75kg Irish Wolfhound into the back of your car can be tricky unaided. [/quote]

I thought we were trying to get owners to bring their 75Kg Irish Wolfhound in to the vet, not the vet visiting the 75Kg Irish wolfhound???

It's the owners who need the advice and they'll never need to look professional, just get the beast to us please.

[/quote]

We actually had a client write quite a nasty letter of complaint to the practice after requesting a home visit to pts a large dog, in a house with a long flight of steep garden steps to the front door. The female vet and nurse who went out were quite small and slight and really struggled to move the dog - the client was upset that "the last memory of their pet was him being manhandled" out of the property

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Anthony Todd — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:48:38 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]That is an excellent point , trying to look professional while hauling a 75kg Irish Wolfhound into the back of your car can be tricky unaided. [/quote]

I thought we were trying to get owners to bring their 75Kg Irish Wolfhound in to the vet, not the vet visiting the 75Kg Irish wolfhound???

It's the owners who need the advice and they'll never need to look professional, just get the beast to us please.

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Mark Holmes — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:18:17 GMT

In the course of discussing 24/7 visits there have been a number of people who have suggested that the risks of a visit are theoretical and unlikely. Given the list of incidents in the recent Inpractice which include accounts of assault, sexual assault and attempted rape are they still considered theoretical and over exaggerated?

Is animal welfare worth these risks?

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

grumpyoldman — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 17:46:33 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

a] The RCVS and/or BVA, or any suitable body, should prepare advice for owners regarding the safe transport of larger animals to a vet.

[/quote]

That is an excellent point , trying to look professional while hauling a 75kg Irish Wolfhound into the back of your car can be tricky unaided.

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Mark Holmes — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 17:33:53 GMT

Very well considered and well presented set of arguments. Best approach to a difficult set of circumstances I would say.

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

grumpyoldman — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 16:36:28 GMT

It (The VN reply) was interesting : not sure about the extra tier of accountability with a policies guru for every practice doing ooh . Looks like somewhere to dump the blame and muddy the water when things go wrong. Talking about the needs of the many being more important than the needs of the few always worries me, particularly when they then go on to talk about the 10% un-vetted and everyone maintaining an obligation to their animals unless of course your giving them £400 a month.

Good professional relations are a two way street, ringing someone at 2am about a client who was allegedly registered with them several years ago as a puppy but now wants a visit and euthanasia for a 15 year old dog , but has no money does not create fantastic goodwill ,particularly when you go into the surgery the following morning and find that the client was not your client at all and had never been on your database!!!.

Guarding professional reputations ?? if you do your job properly on the whole that tends to look after itself . Not sure anything ever comes from this, Winding up 2nd Opinion clients until they are after someones blood has been a recurrent occasional problem for as long as i can remember, some people have always sought to big themselves up by putting the boot in other peoples work. I always called it "veterinary hairdressing", some years ago one local exponent of the art of told me " it was nothing personal but getting a client who is a gob on a stick to complain about another local practice was worth more than an ad in the local press".

In general What they are asking for will go some way to levelling the playing field for everyone, as they are effectively not doing house calls anyway.

Shipping critical care patients about , Not fond of this ,particularly patients with urinary catheters, chest drains , given half a chance clients are excellent at fiddling with things ,touching ,messing and generally screwing up between surgery's.

There did seem to be some respect and recognition that their way was not the only way which was good ,as far as it went, they did recognise that their presence and activity can create refugees who then shop around ,but offered no real solutions to the problem , other that we are catering for he majority so hard luck .

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Anthony Todd — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 15:55:59 GMT

[quote user="glen mcintosh"]This is worth a read:[/quote]

Excellent but 2 more things for consideration:

[a] The RCVS and/or BVA, or any suitable body, should prepare advice for owners regarding the safe transport of larger animals to a vet.

Owners need guidance before the event.

[b] Specialist veterinary surgeons need to be available OOH to deal with their specialised after care or emergencies.

Specialists need to be, and have the special knowledge,which ordinary OOH specialists or locums do not have. support and pain relief in these cases is not enough. Certainly available for phone advice.

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 13:02:10 GMT

I'm certainly NOT signing up to them again anytime soon.

Wynne

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 12:56:47 GMT

Surprise, surprise - VN want the requirement to do house visits removed.

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Bob Russell — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 12:02:36 GMT

Well written and comprehensive!

We shall see what happens next!

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Glen McIntosh — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:08:59 GMT

This is worth a read:

http://www.vets-now.com/media/2524136/24-7_review_submission.pdf

Excellent response IMO.

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 15:42:01 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Can't the profits run to one of each?

Wynne

[/quote]

Exhibit A: Greed in the veterinary profession!

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 14:27:43 GMT

Can't the profits run to one of each?

Wynne

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Anthony Todd — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 14:01:33 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Er, would you prefer a chocolate or strawberry flavoured Cornetto, then?[/quote]

Got to be the ultimate thread drift ever recorded!

And from the DC [Disciplinary Controller] himself TUT, TUT

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 11:51:51 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Arlo, I'll be demanding a share of your profits[/quote]

Er, would you prefer a chocolate or strawberry flavoured Cornetto, then?

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Stuart McArthur B Vet Med MRCVS — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 11:33:14 GMT

The present Vet Times issue cover story, numbers, and the obvious level of distraction of subject matter here suggest that - this area of crucial discussion and development of our professions future culture isnt hysteria at all

My staff are at risk until the 24/7 review gives out clear data. If it is impossible for a VH and compliant MRCVS to know if they are behaving with good conduct then we have poor and ineffective regulation.

We need clear unambiguous deliverable governance now and then the RCVS can live up to a First Rate Regulator claim. At least it isnt clear who will be in front of the DC in future whilst disarray prevails.

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 15:38:32 GMT

ORDER ORDER !

Off topic again.

Wynne

Arlo, I'll be demanding a share of your profits, since I'm doing your job for you

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

grumpyoldman — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 13:32:49 GMT

[quote user="patrick murphy"]

I once got yelled at for not injecting a cow with water! farmers expect something!!! sure imagine that's gone

[/quote]

Umm memories !!! cleansing cows and then washing them out with povidine from a calf bag instead of sticking pessaries in or using a metrijet was one of my biggest sins , it worked well ,better than the other two options but was too time consuming and messy ,and we did not want them all expecting it all the time !!! .

Re: RCVS Call for Evidence on 24/7 provision

patrick murphy — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 12:51:20 GMT

I once got yelled at for not injecting a cow with water! farmers expect something!!! sure imagine that's gone