Fire Alarm System

Re: Fire Alarm System

Rob Loxley — Sun, 15 Dec 2013 19:27:31 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]The consultants are the ones 'creating' many of these requirements perhaps to cover their own backs.[/quote]

More often to make money / sell services etc.

[quote user="Andy Elliott"]we need to install a fully-fledged Fire Alarm System with wall-mounted control-panel[/quote]

Ask for chapter and verse of where they claim this is required... The law says "what is appropriate is to be determined having regard to the dimensions and use of the premises, the equipment contained on the premises, the physical and chemical properties of the substances likely to be present and the maximum number of persons who may be present at any one time"

I'd suggest a word to your local fire & rescue for some sensible advice.

We have mains wired (battery backup) smoke detectors, shout fire loudly in our small premises (no electronic alarm - I once worked somewhere they had an old school-playground type bell to ring! or you can get MCPs with high volume sounders as standalone units), and a sensible array of well maintained fire fighting equipment and suitable fire action / evacuation plans etc.

Re: Fire Alarm System

Ian Mostyn — Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:24:39 GMT

I feel over-detected here! We have fully wired systems at both practices, linked to a central control box and even have detectors in the voids between floors. I probably don't test it every week but I do try to regularly -(usually make Gillian jump out of her skin at home when I test it). It wasn't that expensive and I was more than happy to install it. We have our extinguishers serviced annually and fire safety plans. No sprinklers though but we do have a double layer of fire-proof boarding between floors and all our internal doors are at least 30 minute fire doors, most are 1 hour.

Ian

Re: Fire Alarm System

CatherineThomas — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:55:49 GMT

I used to work in a large maze-like practice where the fire alarm system was 2 whistles, one in the prep room and one in the office upstairs. On many occasions i would have to shout for a nurse and no one would hear. It's a good job those whistles were never needed. It was only changed a few months ago in preparation for the PSS inspector's visit. Now they have proper smoke detectors connected to a sprinkler system, but no wall panel as far as I know.

Re: Fire Alarm System

Helen Wallace — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 17:23:53 GMT

I'm also working in a small practice. Our risk assessment is carried out by the local fire brigade. We have smoke detectors and our alarm system is based on whoever spots the fire shouting 'Fire' as loudly as possible. The building is small enough for sound to carry. I had to do my fire marshal's training recently and this was deemed perfectly fine. The most important thing is to make sure all the staff know what the 'alarm' sounds like.

Re: Fire Alarm System

Glenn Hodgson — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 20:30:29 GMT

we invited the fire brigade round! Very sensible feedback and if they say what you have does the job that should tick any box. And they do it without fee.

Re: Fire Alarm System

Bob Russell — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 14:25:12 GMT

[quote user="Andy Elliott"]

HI Evelyn, we are required by Citation to have regular Fire Risk Assessments by a suitably qualified person (MIFireE). This is a required by the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005

[/quote]

The regulations actually state:

"(3) A person is to be regarded as competent for the purposes of paragraph (1) where he has

sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities to enable him properly to

implement the evacuation procedures referred to in that paragraph/to to

implement the measures referred to in that paragraph.." etc etc.

Therefore it is quite likely that a well educated, sensible employer with an ounce of common sense will (with a little preparation) be able to make these assessments. The consultants are the ones 'creating' many of these requirements perhaps to cover their own backs.

We have really good fire extinguisher people that provide regular training and give sensible advice when they service the extinguishers.

I think the 'Citation requires' says it all!

Re: Fire Alarm System

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 13:58:38 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]The last H & S course I went I was told the most dangerous piece of equipment in the case of a fire is the fire extinguisher - you should not attempt to fight the fire yourself, call the fire brigade and get out. This thus begs the question of why we have fire-extinguishers![/quote]

Because, a bit of common sense, you can "extinguish" a small fire before it becomes serious. This is why everyone is still encouraged to have a fire blanket in the kitchen to stop a chip pan fire. Wastepaper basket fire? Get some water on it or even just hurl it out of doors, if you easily can.

Fire blankets are under-rated. Very useful things. (But don't suggest carrying an injured dog in one, you might get struck off! )

Obviously first of all you get everyone either evacuated or in a position where they can rapidly leave without danger, and someone is calling the fire brigade, but then there's no reason not to tackle the fire with an extinguisher as long as you feel confident doing so and as long as you are between the fire and an exit. That's in my standing orders.

It's a good point though. Comes up in Riding Establishment Inspections. On one refresher course, the lecturer said there should be "lots and lots" of extinguishers. I demurred, saying we don't want to encourage amateur firefighting. The reply was "Yes we do!" Silly woman.

Re: Fire Alarm System

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 11:32:29 GMT

Our fire alarm system is linked to the burglar alarm and will automatically send a signal to the alarm receiving centre who then call the fire service, there is also a panic button on the alarm key pads. This costs little more than a standard burglar alarm and is tested every 6 months. The last H & S course I went I was told the most dangerous piece of equipment in the case of a fire is the fire extinguisher - you should not attempt to fight the fire yourself, call the fire brigade and get out. This thus begs the question of why we have fire-extinguishers!

Re: Fire Alarm System

Bob Russell — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 09:40:16 GMT

These consultants are a real pain and create a lot of work and expense for practices. Your responsibility is to comply with regulations and more important make sure you are satisfied that everyone can get out safely in case of fire or other events.

There are dozens of businesses around here and not one has a fully fledged fire alarm system. Talk to the company that services your extinguishers (unless they are Chubb!). Many are run by firemen or retired firemen and they should give you sound advice.

We have good quality smoke detectors in each room, test them regularly and new batteries go in every Christmas Eve!

Sadly I think these companies go way over the top. We had to remove our coffee machine from the waiting room because consultants considered the hot water a risk! Once they had identified an issue we were pretty much obliged to act. I doubt the HSE would have been worried that much! This is justifying their own existence IMO.fishing for business so they must need the work or make a lot of money from it!

Re: Fire Alarm System

Utlendigur — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 23:58:48 GMT

We use Citation - and haven't got (or been told to get, as far as I know - I'm not the boss) any fancy system even in the main practice. We have a couple of smoke detectors, a couple of fire extinguishers and a couple of those circular metal fire bells you ring by hand (so not even a break the glass one) - trouble is one is just over the bin and people keep banging their heads on it.

Regulation and inspection seem to be the latest growth industries in this country

Re: Fire Alarm System

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 23:23:43 GMT

[quote user="Andy Elliott"] by Citation[/quote]

Who - or what - is that?

I have a mains alarm system with smoke detectors in every room, and one break-the-glass type alarm (you don't actually have to break any glass, but you know what I mean). This is considered adequate. No wall-mounted control panel – what's the need in small premises with a small staff?

Of course we have approved extinguishers and standing fire instructions..

I suspect your inspector is a box-ticker and is not actually making an Assessment of Risk. I may be wrong, I'm prepared to be corrected.

Re: Fire Alarm System

Andy Elliott — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 22:26:17 GMT

HI Evelyn, we are required by Citation to have regular Fire Risk Assessments by a suitably qualified person (MIFireE). This is a required by the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005

Re: Fire Alarm System

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 22:06:02 GMT

Before I comment: may I ask, Fire Risk Assessment by whom?