What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 07 Jan 2014 07:57:15 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

How good are the RCVS going to be at maintaining standards and regulating its members set against such mega powerful institutions?.

[/quote]

That's why I asked the question.

'against'?

Could the power of lobbying cause vet rules to change gradually towards benefiting those with the better financial means? I'm afraid so.

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 05 Jan 2014 09:48:45 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

The RCVS is already completely impotent when it come to these companies. They have absolutely no control over them at all. The companies can cause major stress and worry for the individuals they employ.

[/quote]

Some have their very own RCVS and BVA council members as directors too.

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 05 Jan 2014 09:40:32 GMT

[quote user="CatherineThomas"]

Yep, I worked for a corporate practice for a while. My contract said:

The company may end your employment immediately without notice or pay in lieu if:

a) you are disqualified or suspended from practicing as a veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner or

b) if you cease to hold a licence to drive motor cars or are disqualified from driving for any period

[/quote]

But I guess if you worked for a traditional independent practice it would be the same? If you were to lose your MRCVS status, you couldn't continue as vet.

I had a multi page contract drawn up once for a 3 week locum with a corporate that I had to sign. They cancelled me at 3 days notice without a reason, thus breaching their own specified terms and conditions, they breached their own contract and still had to pay me. They have a large team of people in an HR department with managers and that is all they do.

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

CatherineThomas — Sat, 04 Jan 2014 21:55:18 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I suspect within the 200 page contract there is a clause that allows them to remove any vet that gets struck off so professional ethics are not necessarily high on their priorities. Profit will be![/quote]

Yep, I worked for a corporate practice for a while. My contract said:

The company may end your employment immediately without notice or pay in lieu if:

a) you are disqualified or suspended from practicing as a veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner or

b) if you cease to hold a licence to drive motor cars or are disqualified from driving for any period

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Bob Russell — Sat, 04 Jan 2014 11:01:38 GMT

The profession cannot compete as a whole with their borrowing power. If the companies decide to do things in a certain way, they will do it! Aggressive marketing and business activities are difficult to compete with. Once they dominate the veterinary market the RCVS will have even less control.

I suspect within the 200 page contract there is a clause that allows them to remove any vet that gets struck off so professional ethics are not necessarily high on their priorities. Profit will be!

There will always be a stream of vets who see the 'joint venture' model as the best one to get some degree of control over their destiny.

I wonder if there is a gagging clause preventing so called partners speaking openly on forums such as this.

Anybody not worried about the scale of corporate ownership should be IMO!

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Clive Ansell — Sat, 04 Jan 2014 10:46:01 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

[quote user="Shams Mir"]

The acquisition of Vets4Pets and Companion Care by Pets at Home, our profession has entered into a new phase. Not to speak of independent practices and small groups, as the vet owners of the remaining big veterinary groups decide to retire, these groups are also likely to fall into the hands of giants like Pets at Home. Again, as has rightly been pointed out in this thread, the role of BVU is going to be ever more important.

[/quote]

It would be helpful if you explained why these acquisition and the fact that smaller groups are 'falling into hands of giants' are something to worry about...

[/quote]

We should all probably be concerned about this, the increasing dominance of massive money making corporations making inroads in to our profession cannot be good news for most of us. It would be akin to what supermarkets have done for food supply and farmers/producers, and what Halfords are to cycle repairs.

Pets at Home, who now own Vets4pets and Companion Care, is owned by the massive KKR group who among many others also own Boots, Alliance healthcare, ToysRus, numerous pharmaceutical companies and Staffordshire water. How good are the RCVS going to be at maintaining standards and regulating its members set against such mega powerful institutions?.

http://www.kkr.com/partners/portfolio-partners

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Clive Ansell — Sat, 04 Jan 2014 10:38:00 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]How much of that £13.26 winds up in Labour Party funding?

[/quote]

They need all the help they can get at the moment ;-)

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Mark Holmes — Wed, 01 Jan 2014 22:57:02 GMT

How much of that £13.26 winds up in Labour Party funding?

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Malcolm Ness — Wed, 01 Jan 2014 22:14:18 GMT

[quote user="Shams Mir"]With the membership running in hundreds and more joining every week, the BVU is a growing organisation,[/quote]

Dr Mir, I have on three occassions emailed your organisation asking the simple question,. I have to date received no response whatsoever, so I ask you the same question, "How many fully paid up Veterinary Surgeon members does the BVU have?"

I am not interested in explanation, justification or rhetoric, just the number.

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Francisco Gomez — Wed, 01 Jan 2014 21:15:18 GMT

[quote user="Shams Mir"]

[/quote]

It would be helpful if you explained why these acquisition and the fact that smaller groups are 'falling into hands of giants' are something to worry about...

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Shams Mir — Wed, 01 Jan 2014 20:16:00 GMT

Firstly, may I wish all readers a very happy, healthy, peaceful and prosperous 2014.

It looks like this site needs visiting more often in order not to miss an important thread like this.

The BVU was represented at the biggest veterinary event of the last year, the BSAVA congress in April 2013, and will be there again this year. Led by a group of volunteer vets and nurses, who have jobs as busy as everyone else, the BVU is not in a position and does not see any reason in merely generating headlines to be in the news all the time.

What is really important for the BVU is to stand up for the general professional and personnel rights of its members, and support its members when they need help, where Unite’s know-how is the real power to rely on. In most cases, one phone call or one meeting is all that is needed to set things right! So, if one wants to have that sort of a backing, the only place to go is the BVU.

In its short period of existence, the BVU has at every opportunity strongly defended the rights of vets and vet nurses. In its responses to RCVS consultations on the Health Protocol and Performance Protocol, the BVU highlighted the potential pitfalls which could put the concerned vets and nurses to disadvantage. Similarly we responded to consultations for the Codes of Conduct for Veterinary Surgeons and Veterinary Nurses, again making proposals to safeguard the interests of vets and nurses.

In response to the consultation on Specialisation in Veterinary Profession, the BVU launched a strong defense to safeguard the rights of about three thousand Certificate holders, which would have been pushed into oblivion, had the RCVS got away with its original proposals, which favoured the ‘Specialists’.

The BVU supported the RCVS initiative on LRO to split the disciplinary function from the regulatory function, as it is in the interest of all veterinary professionals.

There is a rather well-founded perception that in spite of all consultations, the RCVS generally tends to put through its original proposals. This has not changed a lot, but the BVU has been able to confront the RCVS and stand up to it for the majority of vets and nurses. It appears that the RCVS does not yet appreciate the BVU as a credible partner, but as the BVU progresses, it may have to be recognised as a credible force in the profession.

Unfortunately, Mr Chikosi (much discussed case on this forum) was not a member of BVU. So, the BVU had no remit to directly intervene in this case. However, the BVU has been closely monitoring the discussion and the responses of the RCVS. Though the profession appears to have resigned to the regulatory “authority” of the RCVS in this case, the BVU has not forgotten the severity of “justice” meted out to Mr Chikosi.

The BVU conducted a detailed investigation into the plight of the junior vets registered for postgraduate programmes at UK veterinary schools and published a detailed report on exploitation of these vets, which forced some veterinary schools to review the terms and conditions of their post-graduate programmes, though there is still a long way to go to remove all discrepancies in this regard.

Although the RCVS lately conducted a survey limited to new graduates looking into their employability, the BVU is conducting its own investigations to expose the truth behind the “need” for more veterinary schools and what the wider profession really thinks about the subject. I welcome the readers to participate in our survey to this effect, which only takes a few minutes to complete, available on the BVU website and directly accessible by clicking on the link given at the end of this submission.

It may be worth reminding that whilst the campaign for setting up of a union for vets and nurses was running, rather than taking up the idea and converting the BVA into a union like BMA, the BVA continued to refute altogether the need for a union in the profession. Over five years on when the proposal for a union for the profession was first launched, it is admirable that the learned contributors to this forum still feel the need for a union. We now not only have our own Union, but it is backed up by Britain’s biggest trade union. The British Veterinary Union in Unite (BVU), with its own National Organising Professional Committee (NOPC) responsible for policy-making and implementation, is an accredited independent national organisation within Unite. The BVU enjoys unfettered freedom to formulate its own policies to meet our objectives, whilst benefitting from an enormous support structure that Unite offers. The truth is that as an incipient organisation within the biggest trade union of the country with over 1.5 million members, the BVU has just started to learn to access the resources available from Unite. As we progress into the future, the BVU and the wider profession will massively benefit from the infrastructure, influence and power of such a large organisation.

With regards to political leanings of Unite, as the chair of the provisional NOPC and as a member of the BVU, I have never in person been approached for anything political. I do get an occasional text message from the Unite HQ or regional office, sent to all members of Unite, informing of the events taking place, and it is up to me how I use such information.

As acknowledged in the contributions to this thread, there is an undeniably important role for the BVU in our contemporary profession. The acquisition of Vets4Pets and Companion Care by Pets at Home, our profession has entered into a new phase. Not to speak of independent practices and small groups, as the vet owners of the remaining big veterinary groups decide to retire, these groups are also likely to fall into the hands of giants like Pets at Home. Again, as has rightly been pointed out in this thread, the role of BVU is going to be ever more important.

The strength and impact of the BVU will continue to increase, as its membership base increases, and more and more of its members involve themselves into the activities of the Union – from policy making to implementation - a distinctive feature of being a member of a professional Union rather than that of a professional association.

Whilst many members of the BVU are willing to help behind the scenes, there is need for more to come forward to support the Union in public knowledge. Surely, many readers of this forum who understand that BVU has an important role to play in the profession can consider joining the BVU with the aim of helping the BVU publicly even though they may never personally be in need of assistance from the union. For those who may potentially need the assistance of the Union in future, it is best to join now rather than wait for the time when a need arises, bearing in mind that the cooling off period for legal assistance for new members is 6 weeks.

The membership fees for BVU are very affordable; the best rate £13.26 per month for full time working members includes valuable protection for you and your family. The subscription money can easily be reclaimed by using some of the huge range of special offers available to members.

With the membership running in hundreds and more joining every week, the BVU is a growing organisation, exclusively dedicated to look after the interests of vets, nurses and others working in the profession.

The first annual Conference of the BVU will be held in summer this year.

For our survey on student numbers survey please click on this link:

http://kwiksurveys.com/app/rendersurvey.asp?sid=2oslyxktuska6tm107914

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Anthony Dennison — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:53:58 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]she even asked me if 'he' was nice.[/quote]

Oh dear. Well David, it was good while it lasted...

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 09:24:51 GMT

[quote user="tess"]

Er, Martin, does your daughter know you've posted her photos?

[/quote]She was happy with the photos, she wanted to know it was a flattering one. She wasn't overly happy with me posting history of her previous conquests but didn't seem to mind me selling her into white slavery - she even asked me if 'he' was nice.

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

tess — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 16:28:40 GMT

Er, Martin, does your daughter know you've posted her photos?

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

David Mills — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:42:01 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

David, you've changed your tune a bit, from:

"It's just becoming, no offence intended, a bit, well mumsnet when photos of kids are being posted" D. Mills Another VetSurgeon Landmark 25.8.2013

Sorry, couldn't resist it

[/quote]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Big difference between 'other peoples kids' and sorting out a date, me thinks![/quote]

Exactly. We're talking about breeding stock here, not youngsters. Keep up old boy.

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

David Mills — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:38:24 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] Assuming he comes up with a bit more than few lousy cows (a formula one team or Virgin Airllines would do nicely) and isn't buried under my vegetable patch, I'm thinking of the fun I could have with his past indiscretions on this forum in the father of the bride speech already. [/quote]

Wowsers, you move quick.

One minute I'm taking her along for a fish supper and a couple of cans of cider al fresco (it's the newest London thing) a week tonight, and next we're planning speeches. No wonder the others ran a mile.

Tell you what, for one date, I'll come and audit your practice along best evidence lines and tell you where you're going wrong. You're getting a bargain.

I'll have her back by midnight.

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:05:33 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

.. a Mills-Atkinson wedding would be the social event of the season! :)

[/quote] Assuming he comes up with a bit more than few lousy cows (a formula one team or Virgin Airllines would do nicely) and isn't buried under my vegetable patch, I'm thinking of the fun I could have with his past indiscretions on this forum in the father of the bride speech already.

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Bob Russell — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:05:00 GMT

Big difference between 'other peoples kids' and sorting out a date, me thinks!

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:03:41 GMT

If all 10,000 of us are invited, it will make Wills and Kate's do seem tiny.

Wynne

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 17:24:13 GMT

This thread is priceless.

[quote user="David Mills"]Just think of the Atkinson-Mills veterinary dynasty. I'll take your practice in lieu of a dowry of 100 cows.[/quote]

David, you've changed your tune a bit, from:

"It's just becoming, no offence intended, a bit, well mumsnet when photos of kids are being posted" D. Mills Another VetSurgeon Landmark 25.8.2013

Sorry, couldn't resist it

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 17:19:12 GMT

...not quite the veterinary union we had in mind, but a Mills-Atkinson wedding would be the social event of the season! :)

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:57:28 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

You weren't lying. And I know the 'don't mess' bit is all talk from your previous posts about not coming across as the protective father.

I'm free next Friday, out of interest.

Just think of the Atkinson-Mills veterinary dynasty. I'll take your practice in lieu of a dowry of 100 cows.

[/quote] I really should be getting on with some work but this is far too much fun.

!00 cows - you must be joking. This is a girl who dumped Eddie Jordan's son (worst bit it was just before I got an invite onto his yacht for the Monaco Grand Prix!), who had Richard Branson's son (along with the man himself) sing Happy Birthday at her birthday party and whose last boyfriend was heir to a large arable farm on the outskirts of Milton Keynes and is presently earning a fortune fracking oil in Brazil. But she still loves her daddy more than all of them. Aaahh.

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

David Mills — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:06:33 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="David Mills"]Interesting, but would need photographic evidence first. [/quote]

If you mess with my little girl just remember I have a gun, a spade and a big garden - and no-one will miss youi

[/quote]

You weren't lying. And I know the 'don't mess' bit is all talk from your previous posts about not coming across as the protective father.

I'm free next Friday, out of interest.

Just think of the Atkinson-Mills veterinary dynasty. I'll take your practice in lieu of a dowry of 100 cows.

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 15:23:22 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Being drop dead gorgeous also helps mind you, she could melt the heart of the greatest tyrant![/quote]

Interesting, but would need photographic evidence first. I'm at a loose end in London these days - how would you like me as a son-in-law? Could be the first vet surgeon.org wedding.

[/quote]

Followed by the first vetsurgeon murder of a son in law. Then the first murder trial, first vetsurgeon conviction, first vetsurgeon DC meeting to strike off ..................

[/quote]

Coronation Street: The Vetsurgeon.org Edition!

Re: What happened to the British Veterinary Union?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 15:00:56 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

And a big swimming pool! Wow you have done well for yourself Martin!

Mariette

[/quote]

If you think my pool is big how about the rest of the garden and Emily with her sister?

PS you need to click on the picture to get the full effect.