Compassion fatigue

Re: Compassion fatigue

Anthony Todd — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:45:55 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"] his/her boss either went off the deep end[/quote]

bosses have bad days too! Condemning them without the full story is a bit premature. Maybe it was out of character. Maybe they weren't aware of the full story. Maybe they had a migraine. maybe they were out of order and the employee needs to leave.

Who knows!

[/quote]

As long as we don't blame the employee in this age of a blame transferring society

Re: Compassion fatigue

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:28:20 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"] his/her boss either went off the deep end[/quote]

Who knows!

Re: Compassion fatigue

Anthony Todd — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 16:38:49 GMT

PS. Or the boss's version of events

Re: Compassion fatigue

Anthony Todd — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 16:36:37 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]The original post sounded as though the animalwas not only suffering, but suffering so severly as to constitute a prosecution case - which is why I'm with AnON[/quote]

And so would I be, but his/her boss either went off the deep end although the animal was, indeed, as above, or the animal wasn't that bad, as supported by the owner's reaction to some extent.

Some of these geriatric cats can totter around, matted fur, terrible teeth, skinny as a rake, eat like a horse and appear totally happy, if inactive and resembling a surgery floor mop.

And we now know that there had been a previous incident where the two, boss and vet, had had a difference of opinion where the vet insists he/she's in the right.

I'd love to see the CCTV of the whole thing......

Re: Compassion fatigue

Anthony Todd — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 16:22:21 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]What is sufficient suffering?[/quote]

If in doubt ask your boss or colleagues, thought that'd be a given.....

Re: Compassion fatigue

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 16:21:00 GMT

Anthony It sounds as though you're really agreeing with me.

The original post sounded as though the animalwas not only suffering, but suffering so severly as to constitute a prosecution case - which is why I'm with AnON

Wynne

Re: Compassion fatigue

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 16:17:11 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

incidentally, now that I know what our official policy is, I happily admit all these cases, treat them to 5* standard... and then euthenase when deemed appropriate by the powers that be.

At least their last week on earth is as comfortable as I can make it.

[/quote]

Do you mean you admit these cases, for [quote user="An On MRCVS"] full blood work, starting on Fortekor, Frusemide, Felimazole, GA for dental etc. etc. etc.[/quote], and then euthanase them after 7 days?

That is not making their last week on earth comfortable.

(It might even give rise to a justified complaint of trespass from the owner, if owner turned up.)

Re: Compassion fatigue

Mark Holmes — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:54:39 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]When one is handed in with no owner how long do you wait?[/quote]

That's why most practices have a policy; often 7 days, as I said, but when suffering is involved, as alleged or in fact, then no time at all.

[/quote] What is sufficient suffering? There are many times I have euthanased strays in similar or even better condition than pets I have treated. Do you wait 7 days for a cat with moderate to late stage renal disease, thin matted and smelly if it's bright eating and moderately comfortable?

Re: Compassion fatigue

Mark Holmes — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:54:06 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]When one is handed in with no owner how long do you wait?[/quote]

That's why most practices have a policy; often 7 days, as I said, but when suffering is involved, as alleged or in fact, then no time at all.

Re: Compassion fatigue

Mark Holmes — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:53:57 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]When one is handed in with no owner how long do you wait?[/quote]

That's why most practices have a policy; often 7 days, as I said, but when suffering is involved, as alleged or in fact, then no time at all.

Re: Compassion fatigue

Bob Russell — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:52:02 GMT

Wow! What a lot of different reactions!

If this cat was prostrate in the garden and was deemed to be beyond salvation by a competent vet why would it be seen as acceptable to leave a suffering animal (even if in 5* accommodation) for seven days?

To cover your back get another vet to check the animal. If you cannot, weigh, record and photograph together with thorough documentation. Why not contact the RSPCA? We all know that they will wash their hands of the matter and hand the responsibility back to the practice but this is something else to document!

I would tend to be a little concerned if a boss behaved this way as it suggests a lack of confidence in your decision making. I have always made it very clear to staff that they have my 100% support when they deal with the general public (even if I don't agree). I will then discuss the matter quietly and in private later.

If you felt euthanasia was the most appropriate action then (with safeguards) go for it! If practice policy had been made clear to you then admit and hand the responsibility to those making the policy. If this would mean unacceptable delay the cat probably needs euthanasing anyway.

Re: Compassion fatigue

Anthony Todd — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:44:27 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]When one is handed in with no owner how long do you wait?[/quote]

That's why most practices have a policy; often 7 days, as I said, but when [probably] terminal suffering is involved, as alleged in this case, or in fact, then no time at all.

"Stray" young cat, healthy, fractured femur, say, pain relief and seven days, or pin it if you want, not sure that a cat on analgesia fed and watered in a warm cage is in too much suffering.

Geriatric cat as alleged etc. etc. the humane euthanasia ASAP, no seven days of probably pointless *5 star treatment.

In this case the animal may well have been in-between the two......

Re: Compassion fatigue

Mark Holmes — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:32:30 GMT

Anthony I think you are unfair, there are plenty of animals which, if stray you would/could euthanase immediately but if owned might persist with. When one is handed in with no owner how long do you wait?

Re: Compassion fatigue

Anthony Todd — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:27:40 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

incidentally, now that I know what our official policy is, I happily admit all these cases, treat them to 5* standard... and then euthenase when deemed appropriate by the powers that be.

At least their last week on earth is as comfortable as I can make it.

[/quote]

Ah, how things change as the whole situation emerges.

I'd be highly pissed off both for my expense [I'm a boss remember] and the lack of compassion if any employee of mine "happily admit all these cases, treat them to 5* standard... and then euthenase when deemed appropriate by the powers that be."

Either the animal is suffering beyond recovery or not. Either it should be treated or not; There shouldn't be a 7 day rule where suffering is a factor, and I'll bet there isn't. Any vet should make this distinction and ASAP and no-one should or would dispute it.

We had a seven day rule [sort of] for healthy strays [which was usually stretched!], but not for suffering animals, and I'll bet this is the policy at the practice in this discussion.

Seven days of suffering is not as comfortable as an early euthanasia!

"happily admit all these cases treat them to the 5* standard " without a considered decision as to the chances of recovery, suffering, and treatment necessary or advisable, sounds like a fit of pique to me.

Perhaps the boss acted too impulsively, and without thoughts of her future consequences, when it sounded as if an employee had put down an animal that perhaps wasn't quite as terminal as was alleged?

Re: Compassion fatigue

An On MRCVS — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 14:07:44 GMT

incidentally, now that I know what our official policy is, I happily admit all these cases, treat them to 5* standard... and then euthenase when deemed appropriate by the powers that be.

At least their last week on earth is as comfortable as I can make it.

Re: Compassion fatigue

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 14:00:53 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Apparently our practice "policy" is to keep them for 7 days... only no-one bothered telling me that. I wanted to spare the practice the expense of full blood work, starting on Fortekor, Frusemide, Felimazole, GA for dental etc. etc. etc.[/quote]

The practice would have done all that for a stray cat in the next seven days???? .

Anyway, the point is, the boss should always be supportive of you initially in any dispute. He/she can always give you a bollocking in private later.

Hmm, the boss is a veterinary surgeon I suppose?

Re: Compassion fatigue

An On MRCVS — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 13:47:12 GMT

Apparently our practice "policy" is to keep them for 7 days... only no-one bothered telling me that. I wanted to spare the practice the expense of full blood work, starting on Fortekor, Frusemide, Felimazole, GA for dental etc. etc. etc.

Would never have been an issue if the owners hadn't kicked up an almighty stink, and the boss happened to be there on the day. Admittedly, there had recently been a misunderstanding about a completely different matter too (for which I also stand by my decision and innocence).

The boss flipped at me and decided I should attend a preliminary disciplinary meeting at which time I could explain myself.

I called the BVA legal helpline - they were brilliant: listened to my side of the story, were supportive and realistic, and offered to send a representative to the meeting for support. The minute the boss heard I was bringing a BVA rep, the boss cancelled the meeting and apologised to me, stating she overreacted and was having a bad week...

Re: Compassion fatigue

Anthony Todd — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 12:13:46 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Your employer is 100% wrong.[/quote]

I am very surprised at the universal and blanket, condemnation of the "employer" without any evidence or inquiry.

I have had similar incidents where the story from the client, the support staff, the vet concerned and, often, the next vet in the case, are not only different in fact, but put an entirely new scenario in place.

Not many "employers" do, or indeed would, institute what may turn into an employment tribunal case, involving potentially a large compensation claim, to say nothing of the client's separate and future actions, without very very careful evaluation of all the circumstances.

The least that the employee can do is post the employer's response in more detail as he/she may get useful advice here for any future actions both from the employer's apparent response and the handling of similar cases..

Remember employers can't act in the way described without very good reason and only after following a defined and well tested procedure.

A claim for constructive dismissal would be a real possibility on the basis of the bald facts stated so far.

Re: Compassion fatigue

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:42:14 GMT

An On

You are 100% right.

Your employer is 100% wrong.

This poor cat was a prosecution case.

Good luck with job hunting!

Wynne

Re: Compassion fatigue

Wren — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:17:10 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

I don't suffer from 'compassion fatigue' (incidentally Bob Geldof was the first person I heard use that phrase), I suffer from 'trying to deal with ungrateful, unreasonable, stupid owner fatigue'!

[/quote]

This.

I know a lot of people are ambivalent about Facebook but I have a conversation set up with a small group of trusted friends (this is utterly private). There are 6 of us, all spread across the country. No other vets but all horse professionals in one form or another - a couple of pro riders, a trainer etc. We can moan to each other about our clients/owners safe in the knowledge that nothing will go any further. The conversation usually bubbles along steadily most days and I can dip in and out as I please. It is great to be able to let off steam to some totally unconnected people!

Re: Compassion fatigue

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 08:46:14 GMT

Whilst I check whether I still get the time out error, thought I'd draw your attention to this news story this morning, which all ties in with compassion fatigue.

Re: Compassion fatigue

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 02:08:29 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"] Instead of supporting me, my employer threatened me with disciplinary action.[/quote]

Your employer is a jerk. That's not compassion fatigue, that's lousy employer fatigue. Been there. Things will just get worse. Leaving is the only cure. (See my profile.)

Re: Compassion fatigue

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 22:09:35 GMT

Anon - don't work for an A hole. Time to go, if you haven't already.

Regarding PTS on humane grounds - you do need to be careful with your evidence trail. digital photos and extensive notes, and cheerfully offer to report the owner to the RSPCA for neglect. And you should have the cojones to argue with your boss if need be, stand up for yourself and your decisions.

I usually tell clients with ancient rickety old cats not to let them wander outdoors - the number that get kidnapped out of their own front gardens by well-meaning busy-bodies is staggering, and I always wonder if a so called stray really is. some of these cats are just plain old, and have been taken away from their home, their meds and their humans and need to be taken back. always easier with a chip or a collar of course.

Just out of interest , what is your boss's policy for looking after ancient strays - would he pay for bloods, IV fluids, chest Xrays , perhaps a thoracocentesis and a scan, and medication, for a week on the off chance an owner may turn up and want their cat back?

Re: Compassion fatigue

Anthony Todd — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:44:59 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Last year I euthenased an ancient, utterly emaciated, mouth-rotting, heart-pounding, almost blind, stray cat (no microchip). The owners emerged a couple days later and were incensed about it as they believed their cat was "happy as larry and has never, ever needed to go the vet in 18 years!". Instead of supporting me, my employer threatened me with disciplinary action.[/quote]

Exactly the same thing happened to me some long time ago with nearly the same result. My cat in question needed euthanasia on humane grounds which was my justification. The cat was found prostrate in a neighbours garden and the owner, a non-client was of a type known by the practice as "a Highgate Housewife" defined as pseudo-posh, living way beyond her means and incredibly stupid.

I would be very surprised, though, if there were not other factors involved in the case you describe which triggered your boss's reaction?

Did your boss give any reason or argument?

Re: Compassion fatigue

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:21:52 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Has anyone got Any advice for us employees who don't have the luxury of being able to sack a nasty client?

Instead of supporting me, my employer threatened me with disciplinary action.

[/quote]

Leave.

[/quote] +1 and/or join the veterinary union and threaten him with action.