Salary and earnings

Re: Salary and earnings

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:25:54 GMT

As for Malcolm's snide remark about Angora rabbits-that is beneath contempt. BTW the worst abuses it described in the production of angora wool took place in China!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-another communist country-but hopefully following that article, fewer peple will buy angora jumpers-and particularly will boycott those made in China

Wynne

Re: Salary and earnings

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:21:55 GMT

Today's comment column in the Daily Mail.

"After it's rescue by taxpayers, RBS had the clearest possible duty to atone for the financial sector's reckless greed, which jeopardised countless livelihoods and brought the economy to it's knees.

Yet far from helping businesses recover, the 82% state owned bank now stands accused of deliberately destroying viable firms in order to buy up their assets on the cheap.

Indeed,if there is any truth in yesterday's explosive report by government adviser Lawrence Tomlinson, RBS has plumbed depths of iniquity contemptible even by the standards of the City.

Who can disagree with Mr Tomlinson's conclusion: " If people have had their livelihoods stolen from them, you should see people going tojail?""

Yet again,I defy any of you to disagree with that. The loony leftie ruling elite hates the Mail, because it sticks up for the decent, the hard working, the law abiding.

Wynne

Re: Salary and earnings

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:21:09 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]The Mail does care about animalwelfare. There's an article today about the dreadful plight of rabbits kept for angora [/quote]

Soon, though, the Mail will realise that Angora is an anglicisation of "Ankara" - these are foreign rabbits coming over here and doing the suffering that is rightly meant for good true-blue English rabbits. The devious scunners, tricking us all like that!

re the Original post - sit down and talk it through with your employer - if you are worth more and they are sensible then they will pay you more. However, if you have over-estimated your worth or they are short-sighted, things might not turn out so well.

Re: Salary and earnings

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:59:27 GMT

I'd happily, and sarcastically sing that song-just substituting " Guardian" Oh, but that has to be correct because it's left-wing, ha ha ha .

Wynne

Re: Salary and earnings

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:50:46 GMT

www.youtube.com/watch[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

It has a better record than most newspapers in highlighting animal welfare problems. Try reading it to see!

Wynne

[/quote]

Re: Salary and earnings

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:26:27 GMT

Francisco 80 years ago-a very powerful man was jailed. I would say it was a deterrant punishment which would make any other company directors who thought of being reckless think again. Now Fred Goodwin seems immune from the consequences of his reckless actions-and I bet Paul Flowers will be as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The taxpayer has to bear the consequences-with no retribution for those whocaused the problem. It was a capitalist society 80 years ago-but one in which people were expected to face the cosequences of their actions.

Wynne

Re: Salary and earnings

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:25:31 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

When socialists want to nationalise things ("seize the commanding heights of the economy") they mean it to be permanent and they want to run things.[/quote]

Maybe I'm not so 'socialist' after all...

[/quote]

We'll get you to see the light yet, Francisco

Re: Salary and earnings

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:21:45 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

When socialists want to nationalise things ("seize the commanding heights of the economy") they mean it to be permanent and they want to run things.[/quote]

Maybe I'm not so 'socialist' after all...

Re: Salary and earnings

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:18:46 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]it's jailing Fred Goodwin,which would act as an example to other reckless bankers.[/quote]

Couldn't we just quietly ask the Americans to trump up some charge or other against Goodwin? Then they would be allowed to extradite him without producing any evidence, cart him off in chains and an orange suit to a hellhole American prison, and give him a choice: plead guilty to something or other and be sentenced to a few years, or maintain his innocence and risk waiting years in prison for trial, spending every penny he has and every he can borrow on his defence with every likelihood he'll be convicted anyway and spend most of the rest of his life in prison.

Getting serious, I see a big difference between nationalisation as socialists know it and the rescue of the banks. When socialists want to nationalise things ("seize the commanding heights of the economy") they mean it to be permanent and they want to run things. The government has no wish to run the banks for any longer than necessary and intends to sell them back to private ownership as soon as that can sensibly be done.

Re: Salary and earnings

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:03:49 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Where I think we do agree is it's wrong the people who caused the mess weren't punished-back tothe history lesson!!!!!!!!!!!

[/quote]

Yes, we agreed on this. But we disagree on the reasons why they don't get punished. And I don't think the history lesson will be ever learnt, it will continue to happen again and again.

I think they don't get punished because, before they cause the mess, they are in a position where they can influence elected people to make the right laws for themselves.

Re: Salary and earnings

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:00:37 GMT

PS Same applies to Paul Flowers-quite appart from the drugs and vice charges in his case-and a Methodist minister as well-tut tut tut.

Wynne

Re: Salary and earnings

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:58:03 GMT

They had to step in-but having stepped in are ruining small businesses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where I think we do agree is it's wrong the people who caused the mess weren't punished-back tothe history lesson!!!!!!!!!!!

The best way to prevent a recurrence isn't nationalisation-it's jailing Fred Goodwin,which would act as an example to other reckless bankers.

Wynne

Re: Salary and earnings

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:50:42 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

.At this very moment,the nationalised banks-RBS and Lloyds are the very ones accused of ruining hundreds of small businesses.

[/quote]

Gillian seems to be in agreement with you , but a moment ago Gillian was defending this? I'm a bit confused.

[quote]

The facts don't support your case

[/quote]

I think that the facts that the government 'having to step in' do support my case

Re: Salary and earnings

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:46:25 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

exactly. We have to decide what is 'best', nothing is going to be ideal or fair to everyone in every single situation.

[/quote]

I'm not in disagreement with you Gillian. And I don't know the perfect solution. But I do think a lot of things could be way fairer. In contrast with most (yeah, maybe I'm wrong), I think the free market had been left to go so wild that even Conservatives are now forced to make 'left-wing' decisions.

Re: Salary and earnings

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:41:41 GMT

Francisco Every time a government has taken over an industry-they've wrecked it. The coal industry was profitable-was nationalised-became hugely unprofitable. The steel industry was profitable, was nationalised-became hugely unprofitable.At this very moment,the nationalised banks-RBS and Lloyds are the very ones accused of ruining hundreds of small businesses. The facts don't support your case

Wynne

Re: Salary and earnings

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:40:00 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]but this is the side effect of the system where we live[/quote]

So do you know a better (perfect) system?

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]I'm not saying that Socialism is the solution[/quote]

exactly. We have to decide what is 'best', nothing is going to be ideal or fair to everyone in every single situation.

Re: Salary and earnings

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:29:52 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Would you have preferred them to get 'punished' by the banks being allowed to go under?

[/quote]

You only get punished because you used a private company that didn't do their job properly, instead they played with your money after promising you that it was kept safe. But in the free market panacea you are forced to use privately owned businesses to pay for basic needs.

Since they are 'basic needs', these private businesses use the taxpayers as a back-up solution.

The answer to your question is: Of course not, but this is the side effect of the system where we live. I quite like Bob's previous post as example.

I'm not saying that Socialism is the solution, I only say that It's not that clear-cut.

Re: Salary and earnings

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:24:49 GMT

Bob Perfect agreement

Wynne

Re: Salary and earnings

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:23:34 GMT

Francisco.I had 2 points.Firstly,you all know how much I hate taxation. Secondly, I've often said how much better things used to be-which some of you regard as heresy!!!!!!!!!!!! This tale is from well before my time-the earliest I can remember is the 1960s-but perfectly illustrates my point on declining standards.

Google, firstly, " 1930 Royal Mail shipping collapse," then "2008 RBS collapse" Read them 1 straight after the other, and the feeling of deja vu will be astounding.

Both were massive companies, thought far too big to fail.

Both failed,and fromthe same cause;over-rapid expansion, and the conceit of one over-confident man who thought he could buy seriously loss-making businesses and turn them around.

Both raised funds with share issues in which the prospectus, although actually truthful was "economical with the truth."

Both were considered a "Business of national importance," so the Government stepped in with vast amounts of tax-payers money to keep them going. Just as well the government did in 1930,else we would probably have lost the " Battle of the Atlantic," and with it,World War 2. As Gillian has so rightly said, the economic consequences of allowing the banks-Northern Rock,RBS, Lloyds,and now Co-operative to fail would be appalling for millions of ordinary,decent people.BTW, if Labour don't return donations from the Co-operative bank, I think they should be charged with receipt of stolen goods-but that's a digression.

The 2 tales are so uncannily similar, you could write an essay on one-right up tothe last paragraph, copy it word for word ( just changing names and dates) for the other,and get 100% for both.

It's in the last paragraph the two tales widely diverge. Then,the man responsible, ( Lord Kylsant) was not only stripped of his knighthood, but financially ruined, and, most imporantly jailed. Admittedly,the taxpayer still had to bail his company out,but there was personal accontability.

Now Fred Goodwin, is enjoying a very generous pension (at our expense) and is also at liberty.

I defy any-one of you to deny that justice was better served 80 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: Salary and earnings

Bob Russell — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:02:06 GMT

Imagine you have an account with HBOS. You need to get some money from the ATM. You go to the machine and it refuses to give it to you. You find out the next day that the money has gone (as has the bank). You might just get some of it back in the future, how much and when is unknown.

People start to panic and withdraw their money from Barclays (who are not in trouble apparently) but there is not enough to pay people. Same with other banks.

The credit card companies do not allow payments because everyone is trying to pay for everything with the last form of electronic money left to them!

Apparently HBOS was only a few hours from this shutdown!

The system was well and truly broken but thank goodness there were sufficient sticking plasters to stop this happening! Most people have kept most of what they had. It could have been far worse!

Why more heads have not fallen for allowing the near miss escapes me. The prisons should be full of people that 'conned' their way to large bonuses. I am happy that there are people with experience rebuilding banks - they deserve the money. Those that got us into the situation should be getting no more than job seekers allowance IMO.

Way, way off the OP!

Re: Salary and earnings

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 14:35:37 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"] If I cant pay my mortgage, I lose my house and I'm still in debt! If banks cant pay their debts, they get 'rescued'![/quote]

Would you have preferred them to get 'punished' by the banks being allowed to go under? A lot of people would have lost their life savings and therefore their homes, through no fault of their own. The government had no choice but to step in.

Re: Salary and earnings

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:27:35 GMT

Not sure what your point is about the Banks Hannah. My point was only that large companies have more influence over members of governments than the people who actually voted them. Over the years, this had resulted in laws that benefit them hugely when they get in trouble.

Re: Salary and earnings

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 12:25:28 GMT

Re the banks. Study a bit of history. 1928 (yes I did say history ) a British shipping company-at that time the largest shipping company in the world -ran into financial difficulties as a result of over-expansion (sounds familiar). The company raised funds with a share issue. The prospectus was actually truthful, but economical with the truth. Nothing in it was untrue, but the bits left out gave a misleading impression. Again sounds familiar. RBS did exactly the same thing.

The Government stepped in,broke the huge company up into smaller components, and provided these with funds to keep going. So far exactly as has happened with the banks. There was, however, one crucial difference. Then the chairman of the company was jailed-now the people who caused the problems seem immune.

Wynne

Re: Salary and earnings

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 11:13:00 GMT

The Mail does care about animalwelfare. There's an article today about the dreadful plight of rabbits kept for angora production-absolutely sickening.

Wynne

Re: Salary and earnings

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 21:16:42 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]

keen to justify high levels of immigration by the need to import workers to do the jobs "British workers don't want to do" - I'm confused

[/quote] But unfortunately true: you don't need to study too hard (no need to be a vet and apologies for who thinks different) to become a meat inspector. Thats how I came to the UK, there was unemployment back then and still British people would't do it. It was well paid and you were done by 2-3pm every day: no saturdays or sundays required...