venting

Re: venting

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 11:29:18 GMT

Or she'll be the perfect owner-because when she does decide on the right horse-it will be " till death do us part."

Wynne

Re: venting

Wren — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 11:24:29 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

People are often afraid of being pushed and having an awkward phone conversation.

Maybe you will be understanding and will say 'that's ok, I understand that's not what you're after, I'm glad to have helped'

However I know some people who are very pushy and will keep going onto asking: 'why? why? and you said you liked my horse... why don't you want her now? You have wasted my time! I turned down someone else because of you!' ... and simply they are not in the mood to tell you about their personal problems, which by the way have nothing to do with you, and don't want to elaborate in a lie...

[/quote]

I'm the first type! If they don't want to speak to me even a text would be fine. I don't mind if they don't want to buy the horse (though I wish SOMEONE would!), I just want to know what they've decided so that I can move on.

Maybe I'm odd, but when I go and look at a horse I've usually done enough homework to be fairly certain it'll be right before I even go, then I let the owner know either while I'm still there or later on the same day whether or not I want to purchase it. The first girl said this was the 15th horse she'd tried so I suppose I shouldn't have held out too much hope! I suspect she's lookoing for something that doesn't exist. At least not in her budget

Re: venting

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 09:56:27 GMT

Or even worse, buying the horse, deciding it wasn't what they wanted,and selling on without making enquiries to ensure it would suit the next owner. That's the start of the slippery slope tothe meat market.

Wynne

Re: venting

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 09:27:44 GMT

[quote user="Wren"] How bloomin' hard is it to say 'thank you for your time, he's a nice horse, just not quite what I want'???

[/quote]

People are often afraid of being pushed and having an awkward phone conversation.

Maybe you will be understanding and will say 'that's ok, I understand that's not what you're after, I'm glad to have helped'

I wouldn't get upset about this and move on instead. I'm sure what happened to you is better than having the horse sold and have an upset buyer demanding their money back.

Re: venting

Dagmar Steele — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 09:10:04 GMT

Very annoying I agree! Quite the same as people making appointments at the surgery and not turning up. The only difference: The second time they do this I send them a bill!

Re: venting

Wren — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:53:25 GMT

I've got a different sort of vent. I have a nice, straightforward 4yo horse for sale. Someone came to try him the other week. I got horse washed (he's mostly white), preened, tack shiny etc. Girl tried the horse, rode him nicely. He didn't put a foot wrong for her, she was happy. Asked to come back for a second viewing, which was arranged for a week later. Same story again, this time she brought her friend/advisor who also rode the horse. They tried him in every situation possible and he behaved very well and did exactly what was asked of him. Was promised a phone call that evening with her decision... nothing. She doesn't pick my calls up and has ignored a text I sent. How bloomin' hard is it to say 'thank you for your time, he's a nice horse, just not quite what I want'???

So on Fri I had another viewing, same story again, potential purchaser impressed with horse, horse went well for her, she said she go home and watch the video of her riding it and ring... nothing. Where are peoples' manners? It takes time and effort to get the horse clean and tidy and arrange facilities for them to try it! I love breaking in horses and preparing them for sale. I hate selling them as this happens time and time again.

Re: venting

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 15:06:50 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I still think that 90% of dogs aren't obese due to the amount of dog food they are given - it is due to all the attention they get with the extra treats! [/quote]

My dog's fat because she keeps eating the puppy's food.............

Re: venting

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 14:55:36 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Labs are stomachs on legs[/quote]

OK, OK, I concede, some dogs will overeat if fed ad lib on normal dog food.

I still think that 90% of dogs aren't obese due to the amount of dog food they are given - it is due to all the attention they get with the extra treats!

Re: venting

Bob Russell — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 11:34:25 GMT

Complaints made on social media sites are often put there by cowards. Not enough guts to discuss a problem face to face.

If they have complained, discussed it and still do it they either have a valid point that has not been satisfactorily dealt with or are spiteful toe-rags. It is up to the practice to do a bit of soul searching to decide which!

We have one particularly vocal complainer who has now been restricted/banned from a number of forums because this is all she does!!

Generally not worth rising to the bait with these people!

Re: venting

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 09:48:35 GMT

Labs are stomachs on legs

Wynne

Re: venting

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 09:45:32 GMT

Wouldn't this job be great if it was just us and the animals-and no b****y owners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: venting

Braden Collins — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 07:32:10 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Just feel like having a scream and shout......

Just replied to a complaint letter. Has put me in a bad mood.

Problem:

rabbit castrated. Eating and pooing normally before discharge. Told to contact us if any wound issues or not eating normally.
rabbit represented almost dead 11 days later. 50% of the weight it was on op day. Surgical wounds clean and healed.
owner complaining that we didn't either treat it's post op gut stasis -- EH????? (diagnosed by a friend who's a vet nurse at another practice....although she's never even seen the rabbit...) or check it to see if it was becoming ill. Apparently, owner's can't be expected to know if their rabbit is ill.
owner annoyed that their rabbit died due to a SIMPLE procedure and lack of care by us!

Good job I don't get many complaints..... they do nothing for my blood pressure. What happened to owners being responsible for their own pets' health???

[/quote]

My most recent complaint from a client was put on our Facebook page by them, which makes it very hard to reply as you still need to respect client confidentiality. This client had a puppy that had been sick for at least 10 days. She had made 3 separate appointments over the previous 10 days and failed to turn up for any of them, then just turned up without an appointment. Her excuse for not calling to cancel ranged from couldn't get someone to give her a lift (still not sure why she couldn't phone that time) through to she had no phone credit and she'd already borrowed money of her mum for nappies for her kid so couldn't borrow any more.

Dog presented moribund with intestinal foreign body. We explained the poor prognosis and cost (estimated around $1800 aussie dolars (around 1200 pounds) as dog so sick. She promised she would pay but had no deposit and no photo ID, but still expected us to effectively "loan" her $1800.

We refused as the dog really needed euthanasia and we had no chance of ever seeing any money from this person. She consented to euthanasia (which we did at no charge) only after we told her to expect a visit from the RSPCA if she took the dog home.

She got on out facebook page and called us all names under the sun. It was very hard not to fire up and reply with what we really thought. We've now changed our setting so I need to approve posts by others before they appear (please do this with your own page if you haven't yet).

It did feel good to send her an official sacking letter though. Very therapeutic.

Re: venting

Sammy82 — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:46:41 GMT

I agree. Some dogs might be fussy eaters, some breeds more than others, the only time ever I remember my parents old dog (Hovawart) not finishing her breakfast was when she had haemorrhagic gastro-enteritis and endend up at the clinic on a drip for 3 days. How would you train a dog to eat sensibly? It's difficult enough with humans who have the brains to understand that obesity is unhealthy.

Re: venting

Hanna Bennett — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 20:22:12 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Dogs trained and owned properly don't overeat on normal dog food - whether it is fed ad lib or not.

[[/quote]

I'm not trying to question the rest you wrote but.... Did you ever own a Labrador??????

[/quote]

I was thinking the same thing! my 25kg lab is that way because I am strict with his food, not because he is capable of self control - he would eat bowl after bowl of food on a daily basis.

Re: venting

HMC — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 17:25:30 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Does anybody else get fed up of constantly having to reply tactfully - I appreciate it's not the "done thing" to parcel up some faeces and send it in the post - but the temptation is often overwhelming!

[/quote]

+1 for poo in the post (it has occurred to me in the past but obviously only as a thought)

Re: venting

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 15:22:45 GMT

I suppose I wasbeing flippant. I don't literally mean owners of emaciated dogs are in the same category as those who over feed. There are very different emotions at play.

I do still feel that owners of grossly overweight dogs should feel thoroughly ashamed of themselves and that the public should be aware that it is a cruelty issue.

Re: venting

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 15:19:27 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]How many do give advise on observing the behaviour of animals after discharge and actually hand out a discharge sheet with it all written down so they cannot come back with this sort of complaint?[/quote]

They have a discharge consultation with the RVNwhere everything is explained, the wounds are demonstrated etc. They are given a discharge sheet specifically tailored to rabbits (automatically generated by PMS for each species) and they are told us to ring us to arrange for a free post op check if they have any concerns.

It doesn't prevent complaints, apparently!

Re: venting

David Mills — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 14:47:15 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]If you're comparing dogs and people 'emotions' I entirely disagree with you in that one: I feel (and I guess most people do) physically and mentally much better throughout the day when I exercise and I don't eat 'ad libitum'. Using your argument I don't think how this couldn't be applied to dogs...[/quote]

No, I'm not saying they have the same emotions, but that they have emotions. Emotions are powerful drivers of behaviour both in terms of memory and motivation, and are one of the key welfare aspects we should consider. I think that when a dog eats, or plays ball, or interacts with its owner, some pleasurable emotion attends that action - they are not automata, as I'm sure we'd all agree.

I don't think it's fair to make comparisons to a human living a healthy lifestyle because, in humans, there is a hell of a lot of placebo/societal influence. I think comparing your emotional state over the course of a day or a few weeks does injustice to the immediacy of a canine's emotions and desires, takes anthropomorphism too far, and is a category mistake in counterpoint to my argument.

Re: venting

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 14:41:11 GMT

Where dogs are concerned, I'm with David. I've done too many RSPCA prosecutions of owners of emaciated dogs.

Where horses are concerned, it's another matter................allowing obesity,which then leads to laminitis is totally unforgivable.Laminitis is agonisingly painful. Imagine having toothache,and then having to weight bear on that tooth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: venting

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 14:40:40 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Dogs show a positive preference to food? Rubbish...They show a positive preference to treats, titbits and other high calorie foods because the owner has programmed them to react in that way. Good = treat, bad = no treat. It's not rocket science.[/quote]

I do like logic based purely on opinion.

For simplicity's sake, lets take Thin Dog and Fat Dog, both at opposite ends of the weight spectrum with no health problems otherwise or secondary to their weight issue. Who's welfare is, and has been, better in the short term? It's obviously Fat Dog, who has had lots of food (=good emotions), and all his needs met; certainly better than Thin Dog who has had chronic hunger, suboptimal nutrition intake (=bad emotions).

[/quote] If you're comparing dogs and people 'emotions' I entirely disagree with you in that one: I feel (and I guess most people do) physically and mentally much better throughout the day when I exercise and I don't eat 'ad libitum'. Using your argument I don't think how this couldn't be applied to dogs...

Re: venting

David Mills — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 14:14:39 GMT

I do like logic based purely on opinion.

Re: venting

David Mills — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 14:08:41 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]On the basis that immediate welfare needs are a priority we should euthanase an awful lot more animals and any condition (eg orthopaedics) which require a degree of short term distress/stress/pain would not get treated.[/quote]

Yes, it's an interesting conclusion isn't it?

Especially when few of us audit our work and so cannot perform an adequate cost/benefit analysis on whether treatment is justified. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should, after all.

I'm sure many animals suffer on the road of good intentions, and possibly go on suffering when that road wears away to desert.

Re: venting

Rob Loxley — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:48:36 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]How many do give advise on observing the behaviour of animals after discharge and actually hand out a discharge sheet with it all written down[/quote]

Yes, and these are generated for each pet by the PMS so there is a paper trail that we can produce. Our rabbit postop forms spell out things to look for (not eating, hiding away, not passing droppings in a certain timeframe etc.) as some of our owners aren't all clued up on what to consider a concern

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]And how many give rabbits an injection of metoclopramide[/quote]

I'm with Gillian - analgesia, reduce stress, get eating and avoid rather than treat ileus

Re: venting

Mark Holmes — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:36:32 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Wish the general public saw gross obesity as a welfare issue just as much as emaciation is.[/quote]

Well, opening a can of worms, it isn't (in the short-term, before any of the long-term effects occur). A well-fed dog likely experiences lots of short-term pleasurable moments when being fed tasty treats and food to excess. They are not body conscious so don't suffer negative feelings in that respect. They adapt their lifestyles to it, and don't 'miss' chasing around the park.

Compare to emaciation where chronic starvation would have been accompanied by feelings of severe hunger, lethargy, weakness, and the cascade of negative emotions that attend such feelings.

Completely incomparable wouldn't you say?

Indeed, there is a strong argument that because dogs show such a positive preference for food and obtaining it that in fact their immediate welfare (which is very important to dogs, with no concept of health or future health) is compromised by being maintained on anything less than an ad lib diet...

[/quote] On the basis that immediate welfare needs are a priority we should euthanase an awful lot more animals and any condition (eg orthopaedics) which require a degree of short term distress/stress/pain would not get treated.

Re: venting

Dagmar Steele — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 11:52:26 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Dogs trained and owned properly don't overeat on normal dog food - whether it is fed ad lib or not.

[[/quote]

I'm not trying to question the rest you wrote but.... Did you ever own a Labrador??????