French vets on strike

Re: French vets on strike

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 09:07:08 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] 'use in 28 days'[/quote]

Just a lazy copy and paste from the human regs where they don't use preservatives and usually use ampoules which are open to the atmosphere.

[/quote]

It can't imagine it's a copy and paste from human regs, the ampoules are single use and any unused drug should be discarded straight away. I would guess they've spent the money to prove it's safe up to 28 days, but haven't tested beyond that for most drugs. I noticed recently however that the Cartrophen data sheet says to use within 3 months of opening.

Re: French vets on strike

Anthony Todd — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 19:01:32 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] 'use in 28 days'[/quote]

Just a lazy copy and paste from the human regs where they don't use preservatives and usually use ampoules which are open to the atmosphere.

Vigorously opposed, of course, by the pharmaceutical industry who were giving the same product a shelf life of year(s) the day before......

The irony is that it's poor joe public who pays the extra but the vets who get the blame for excessive fees.

Re: French vets on strike

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 11:51:10 GMT

Actually it seems an amazing percentage of french vets participated in the strike. Considering how different France is to the UK (there simply won't be the choice of vet there is here as the population density is so much less in most of France) I suspect the loss from one day is easily offset by losses encountered by not being able to prescribe properly!

Re: French vets on strike

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 09:50:36 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Afterall - just going to a different vet instead wasn't an option! [/quote] I wouldn't be so sure, there would have been plenty of blacklegs - probably the cut price vet down the road trying to cash in!!

Re: French vets on strike

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 09:39:11 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]What puzzles me though is, unless they are employed by the government, I just can't see what leverage striking vets have - surely all they're doing is shooting themselves in the foot, it is only their loss if they're not working.[/quote]

Good PR. The public will get to understand that vets are having to work with their choices tied up by legislation, and the government will be publicly shamed. Losses will be limited as most people will simply come to see you the next day, surely? Afterall - just going to a different vet instead wasn't an option!

Re: French vets on strike

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 09:33:19 GMT

[quote user="Laurence Webb"]Does anyone know preciselty how their ability to prescribe antibitoics is being restricted? Removal of certain antibiotic groups (eg fluroquinlones) or being forced to adhere to the cascade?[/quote]

I'm trying to find out - unfortunately my grasp of French is not as good as it should be, and the person I am speaking to in France has limited English. Hopefully I'll have more later today.

Re: French vets on strike

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 09:32:49 GMT

[quote user="Laurence Webb"]

Does anyone know preciselty how their ability to prescribe antibitoics is being restricted? Removal of certain antibiotic groups (eg fluroquinlones) or being forced to adhere to the cascade?

[/quote] In some countries vets cannot dispense and have to write a prescription - perhaps its that. Let us not forget that the powers that be have the ultimate sanction to withdraw our right to dispense so as much as we hate and deride the cascade and the 28 day breached rules we should really stick by them or the consequences may be much worse.

What puzzles me though is, unless they are employed by the government, I just can't see what leverage striking vets have - surely all they're doing is shooting themselves in the foot, it is only their loss if they're not working.

Re: French vets on strike

Laurence Webb — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 08:46:56 GMT

Does anyone know preciselty how their ability to prescribe antibitoics is being restricted? Removal of certain antibiotic groups (eg fluroquinlones) or being forced to adhere to the cascade?

Re: French vets on strike

Suzanne Kelly — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 23:43:04 GMT

http://youtu.be/gMYNfQlf1H8

Couldn't resist :)

Re: French vets on strike

Emily Nightingale — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 19:12:51 GMT

Ha! i was going to write that! i like the scarf the dude in the middle is wearing. I bet he is into cardiology looking as dapper as that! All cardiologists I know are trendy =)

Re: French vets on strike

David Mills — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 18:42:50 GMT

Much better dressed than the Brits...

Re: French vets on strike

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 18:38:48 GMT

And for those of you who want to see what striking French vets look like up close ...

Re: French vets on strike

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 18:28:48 GMT

Sorry, been struggling to get hold of the VetSurgeon.org French correspondent (the lines to our Paris office were down). But I've just got the story and picture in now:

http://www.vetsurgeon.org/blogs/veterinary_news/archive/2013/11/07/100157.aspx

Tell you what, you've got to hand it to the French, that is one seriously impressive turnout!

Re: French vets on strike

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 16:10:07 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I am perfectly happy to praise them if they did something I agreed with![/quote] So not often then?!

Anon I would have give you double 5 stars if possible but you lost some for not being brave enough to stand up and be counted.

Re: French vets on strike

Bob Russell — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 15:55:38 GMT

Wimp! Stand up and be counted. I am perfectly happy to criticise them just as I would praise them if they did something I agreed with!

Cascade is European legislation outside the RCVS's remit. They have been pathetically weak at defending some aspects of the profession, made some pretty awful decisions and overspent money on rubbish IT projects.

I have a lot less respect for them as regulators than I did in the past but there are odd glimpses that they may be changing a bit!

Re: French vets on strike

An On MRCVS — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 15:45:17 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Yes, lets all march on Whitehall protesting over the ridiculously inflexible regulations on the cascade and the 'use in 28 days' rule on opened pharmaceuticals.[/quote]

I'll fetch my placards.

EVERY day I have a case that would benefit from medicine that is affordable, but I'm FORBIDDEN from offering because there is a "licensed" drug to treat that condition in that species.

Today's was simple. CKCS in CHF. £5 for a month's furosemide? OK. £20 for a month's pimobendan? OK. £20 for a month's veterinary-licensed benazepril? Sorry, can't afford it. Do I think that dog would benefit from the addition of generic benazepril (or indeed any cheaper human ACEi) - yes. Do I think it is acceptable that I am FORBID from offering this option to the owner - yes. Do I think that not offering cheaper, affordable drug options to the owner falls far short of the standard a pet-owner expects of a vet - yes.

Let's check our professional regulator's code of conduct:

Professional competence: the ability to determine that an ACEi is required and that generic benazepril is likely to be effective.
Honesty and Integrity: making the owner aware of this option; not pretending that vet-licensed benazepril is so superior to a human generic that the latter cannot ever be commended.
Independence and impartiality: assessing the merits of a veterinary-licensed preparation of a drug on the evidence available; providing an honest and objective set of options to the owner to include human generic drugs that are likely to be just as effective at lower cost, or likely to be less-effective but still beneficial at lower cost.
Client confidentiality and trust: being trusted to make options available objectively, taking into account objective, professional assessments of efficacy of options; being trusted to make all treatment options available, particularly cheaper more affordable options.
Professional accountability: whoever let these rules get in, or continues to perpetuate them, restricting the prescription of drugs to "the one licensed for that condition in that species" deserves to be held to account by the profession.

How is one supposed to reconcile these guiding principles of conduct with the "detailed advice" that one is to restrict medicines use in pets to "the product licensed for that condition in that species" and cost can't be considered part of one's judgement?? How does one justify this professionally when it is so frequently to the detriment of pets being treated?? The RCVS should be ashamed.

PS - Anon because I fear the RCVS and would never criticise them publically!

Re: French vets on strike

Bob Russell — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 15:06:27 GMT

Relaxation of rabies rules, cheapskate TB testing!

Re: French vets on strike

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 13:18:00 GMT

I'll invest in a new pair of walking shoes for that one

Wynne

Re: French vets on strike

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 12:57:17 GMT

Yes, lets all march on Whitehall protesting over the ridiculously inflexible regulations on the cascade and the 'use in 28 days' rule on opened pharmaceuticals.

Re: French vets on strike

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 11:46:25 GMT

I've just been getting the low down on the strike and I'll have something in the news section for you later today.

Re: French vets on strike

Bob Russell — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 10:30:02 GMT

Love it!

Lets make a list of demands and march on Whitehall. Most vets are still (at the moment!) held in high esteem by the general public and it would make quite a splash even if nobody is likely to listen!

Vive la France!!!!