PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

James Laidlaw — Sat, 22 Feb 2014 13:24:59 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]How is anyone looking at the passport meant to know this?[/quote]

By looking at the 'valid until' date? I have occasionally vaccinated puppies under 3 months old with UK Nobivac Rabies but therefore put the valid until date as the date when they are 3 months old (as per UK datasheet)

[/quote] I meant how are you meant to know the vaccination status of the dam. MSD were only able to locate the Irish datasheet from 2009 and their vet advised a booster at 3 months despite the passport being signed as valid for 3 years with a single vaccine at 5-6 weeks of age. Client is happy to have a booster at 3 months, but the whole situation is ridiculous I feel. I have a number for the Irish branch of MSD, why they couldn't ask them themselves is beyond me though!

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Rob Loxley — Sat, 22 Feb 2014 11:58:14 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]How is anyone looking at the passport meant to know this?[/quote]

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

James Laidlaw — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:39:59 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]Had an interesting discovery today. Ireland datasheet for nobivac rabies allows for single primary vaccination of dogs from 4 weeks of age PROVIDED the dam was unvaccinated. How is anyone looking at the passport meant to know this? And why is it different to the UK?!?? Surely it's the same bl**dy stuff in the bottle!

[/quote]

I have called MSD to ask about this and what their advice is re: 4 week old pups being certified for 3 years following a single dose and no blood test. Will update when (if) I hear back.

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:26:13 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]With this in mind, and with no sign of the ridiculousness ending any time soon, I gave in and have given my 9 month old pup a pointless rabies vaccination so we can go visiting the inlaws on Anglesey.[/quote]

You can't sign your own passport.............

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Virginia Campbell — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 22:49:45 GMT

[quote user="Westvet"] Commercial movement of dogs ie involving change of ownership be it sales of puppies or rehoming of rescues in the UK by some organisations seems to be what the authorities are actually interested in rather than prevention of rabies. While commercial movement of dogs shouldn't come under the PETS scheme pet owners may face problems if everything is not in order.[/quote]

With this in mind, and with no sign of the ridiculousness ending any time soon, I gave in and have given my 9 month old pup a pointless rabies vaccination so we can go visiting the inlaws on Anglesey.

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

James Laidlaw — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:38:13 GMT

Had an interesting discovery today. Ireland datasheet for nobivac rabies allows for single primary vaccination of dogs from 4 weeks of age PROVIDED the dam was unvaccinated. How is anyone looking at the passport meant to know this? And why is it different to the UK?!?? Surely it's the same bl**dy stuff in the bottle!

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Westvet — Wed, 06 Nov 2013 23:15:19 GMT

Hi Julie “As both the Republic of Ireland and the UK have had no indigenous rabies for many decades, compliance checks on pets travelling between the two countries will not be applied. Pet owners travelling with their pets should therefore not experience any change on the ground from 1 January.” This almost identical line was on both UK and Irish official websites but has been removed recently. Compliance checks have been carried out on dogs travelling from Ireland by UK authorities over recent months but I have not heard of any regarding pets travelling from the UK to Ireland. Commercial movement of dogs ie involving change of ownership be it sales of puppies or rehoming of rescues in the UK by some organisations seems to be what the authorities are actually interested in rather than prevention of rabies. While commercial movement of dogs shouldn't come under the PETS scheme pet owners may face problems if everything is not in order. Westvet

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

KathW — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 22:27:26 GMT

Is she importing and selling in a volume that would require a licence - Pet Shop licence - from Trading standards? If so you could make enquires with them along that line - does she have one , do they know where the pups are coming from etc and put the ball in their court.

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Julie Innes — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 22:02:57 GMT

Thanks all. I have decided to do nothing on the basis that, as you say, it will change/achieve nothing, and surely there is a client confidentiality aspect to it too...

My problem I had with the 'friend' importing the puppies is less to do with where they came from and more to do with my aversion to people selling pups to who-cares-who on gumtree for a fast buck. Add to that the stress for the pups of being dragged miles when less than 8 wks, prospective owners can't see mum etc. Just a crappy set up.

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Noweia — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 13:13:28 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Not sure if photo id is required for ferry travel.

[/quote]

Never been asked for it yet! (NI and Scotland routes)

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

John Flynn — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 12:17:25 GMT

Of course, if Scotland votes for independence then there would be the same rules travelling from Scotland to Northern Ireland or England with a dog...

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

John Flynn — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:44:20 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] while UK & Ireland remain ostensibly rabies free common sense for once prevails[/quote]

I'm guessing you haven't tried taking a dog on Stenaline ferries from Dublin to Holyhead recently

I would advise a client travelling from UK mainland to Ireland with a dog by ferry to go to Northern Ireland only and then drive down to be sure, to be sure.

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] I guess they are in place in case they are actually needed[/quote]

I think they are in place due to EU harmonization rather than a perceived need bilaterally between the 2 member states - just another piece of EU bureaucracy to ignore [fail to adequately fund the enforcement of] in my opinion (like rules on only offering the prescription expensive dog-labelled brands of drugs etc.)

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:32:45 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Not sure if photo id is required for ferry travel. [/quote]

We go to the Channel Islands a bit and they insist you have photo ID on the boat, but in a dozen journeys never been asked for it.

TBH Julie I agree that shipping puppies over here is not a good thing to do, but there are worse places they could have come from - at least they shouldn't bring rabies. I honestly can't see trading standards being especially interested.I suspect you will get hassle for zero gain.

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Bob Russell — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:27:05 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Julie Innes"] it seems these rules are being wildly flouted all over the place- are they even worth having?[/quote] I guess they are in place in case they are actually needed, while UK & Ireland remain ostensibly rabies free common sense for once prevails. I also had a client ask for information on this and I advised that technically the dog needed a passport but it was up to her if she wanted to take the chance.

Out of interest do they check human passports ever between the two countries?

[/quote]

No passport checks are required for EU citizens but photo ID is needed for air travel. Not sure if photo id is required for ferry travel. Non-EU travellers except from certain listed countries generally will need an Irish visa to enter the Irish Republic (very complex issue sometimes!) legally. Border controls are pretty limited but there is a theoretical risk that someone may need to demonstrate their right to be in the country!

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 09:33:38 GMT

Ask Vet Defence-and do whatever they say.

Wynne

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 09:30:13 GMT

Out of interest do they check human passports ever between the two countries?

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Kate Richardson — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 09:29:53 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]

then today I was presented with a puppy imported from Ireland- docked, with no papers, no chip, no rabies vacc, no passport. 10 weeks old. I know where it came from (and this is where it gets even more awkward)- my daughter's school-friend's mum is buying puppies in from Ireland and selling them on Gumtree (AAARGH!) She actually told me about this in conversation and we got into an, erm, slightly heated discussion where I told her I really strongly disapproved of what she was doing (at this point I wasn't aware it was illegal, just a bad idea) Her husband's business seems to be buying and selling on Ebay/ gumtree etc, and they are Irish, so he makes trips across and brings back these puppies. We haven't really spoken since our slight altercation.

Now, officially I have no proof of the movement of these puppies, as she has made sure I haven't been informed, but I'm pretty sure this puppy came from her, and I know she has done it before (and seems to be continuing to do so). My dilemma is, I don't really know how to handle it. I don't really want to "grass her up" to Trading Standards, as I have no actual proof, and it would make things very awkward for me in the local community (I'm sure she would guess it had come from me, given my previous strong disapproval). Part of me thinks I should call her and warn her that I have discovered what she is doing is illegal, and she could be fined/ prosecuted, but having kind of severed contact with her I don't really want to stir up that hornet's nest again.

[/quote]

I am sure there are plenty of people in your community who would agree with your stance on this, not saying you should 'grass her up' but if you have made your opinion clear then I would have nothing more to do with her, and I wouldn't encourage my daughter to be friends with her, or is that a bit mean? If it is illegal then maybe you should inform her? Not sure where you stand if you know a 'crime' is being committed and you don't report it. Or a nice article in local rag about getting a new puppy and how to go about and warning about farmed puppies?

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Julie Innes — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 08:50:04 GMT

Thanks, Sally, that's really helpful. So the greyhounds going for mating should still have rabies shots/ passports, and the puppies are too young to be imported anyway. As Michael says, it seems these rules are being wildly flouted all over the place- are they even worth having?

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Sally Everitt — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 08:22:51 GMT

Hi Julie,

The regulations for dogs (cats and ferrets) moving between the UK and the Republic of Ireland came into effect on 1st January 2012 with the last update of the Pet Travel Regulations, however at the time Defra stated that

“As both the Republic of Ireland and the UK have had no indigenous rabies for many decades, compliance checks on pets travelling between the two countries will not be applied. Pet owners travelling with their pets should therefore not experience any change on the ground from 1 January.”

http://www.bsava.com/Resources/Pettravel.aspx

However if people are bringing in animals for sale or transfer they should not be coming in under the Pet Travel Scheme as these count as commercial movements and are covered by the regulations for commercial movements (Balai Directive) this states that

Cats, dogs and ferrets may be imported without undergoing quarantine providing that they meet the following conditions:

they are from a holding or business registered with the EU Member State of origin;
be identified by a microchip prior to vaccination*;
after the age of 3 months be vaccinated against rabies*;
after vaccination have undergone a serological test showing a protective antibody titre of at least 0.5 international units and remain at the holding or business for a minimum of 6 months;
be treated for ticks and echinococcus not less than 24 hours and not more than 48 hours prior to check in with the carrier whom will carry the animal to the UK;
be accompanied by a passport containing a rabies vaccination record modelled on Annex 1 of Commission Decision 2003/803/EC; and
be accompanied by a certificate that confirms 24 hours before dispatch a clinical examination was carried out by a vet authorised by the competent authority showing that the animal is fit and healthy to travel

*Importers should note that the commercial and non-commercial movements for cats, dogs and ferrets under the age of 3 months is not allowed.

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/animaltrade/imports/iins/livebalai/bal_live_5.htm

If they are offereing animals for sale over the internet they should also be aware of the Pet Advertising Advisory Group minimum standards http://paag.org.uk/standards/.

Perhaps a first stage would be to make sure that they are aware of the regulations and advisory standards.

Sally

Re: PETS travel and the Republic of Ireland

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 24 Oct 2013 23:55:21 GMT

Whilst it is technically a legal requirement to hold a pet passport to travel from Northern Ireland to the South it is a rule that is openly ignored and no border checks are carried out.

Cross border issues

Animals coming to Ireland from Northern Ireland (or the UK, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man) are not subject to the quarantine or passport requirements. In effect, there is a common travel zone and dogs and cats can move freely within that zone provided they do not travel outside it.

http://www.borderpeople.info/index.htm

I have friends in Northern Ireland and people and dogs cross the border all the time. Farmers owning land both side, live in the South and take your dog to work in the North etc etc.

It would never be practicable to enforce.