Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 19 Sep 2013 20:33:19 GMT

The last rabies case in Germany not too long ago was a dog brought back from Morocco!

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

bob lehner — Thu, 19 Sep 2013 20:12:55 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]The main function of the Pet Passport is to prevent transmission of rabies[/quote] Had a client in last night with dog for rabies booster. He said he travelled to Morocco, with the dog. Said he was never checked when coming back from Morocco into Spain - tries to give his documents to officials at the border, but no one even interested ! Morocco had > 250 episodes of rabies in 2012 appparently, with dogs being the main reservoir.

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

bob lehner — Thu, 19 Sep 2013 20:12:55 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]The main function of the Pet Passport is to prevent transmission of rabies[/quote] Had a client in last night with dog for rabies booster. He said he travels regularly to Morocco, with the dog. Said he never gets checked when coming back from Morocco into Spain - tries to give his PP to officials at the border, but no one even interested ! Morocco had > 250 episodes of rabies in 2012 appparently, with dogs being the main reservoir.

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

mariette asselbergs — Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:49:27 GMT

Ministry of Agriculture/Veterinary Service of the country you are travelling to is of course the best. But maybe not always practical. For Europe the Embassies should be good enough, they should have an agricultural person there. So for Europe I do tell people to check with the Embassies. For outside Europe a different story of course!

Mariette

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:41:49 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

I refer them to the various embassies of the countries involved, exactly because I do not check daily if rules have changed. I will do the vet work and advise on the dangers of tickborne diseases etc, but leave the legal stuff to the knowledgeable sources.

Mariette

[/quote]

Refer them to the Ministry of Agriculture or whoever is responsible for animal travel, instead of the embassies. Embassies (IME) are often out of date or incorrect, hardly any of them have any animal experience.

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:07:24 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"] I do not give my clients advise about what is needed or not to travel with their pets legally. I refer them to the various embassies of the countries involved, exactly because I do not check daily if rules have changed.[/quote] I try to keep up to date and will advise clients what I presently understand but add that it is their responsibility to check with DEFRA and the individual countries concerned. Each passport is issued with a disclaimer which states just this, they have to sign a copy which I retain and take one for information themselves.

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

John Flynn — Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:15:31 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]

The main function of the Pet Passport is to prevent transmission of rabies, and both the UK and Republic of Ireland are rabies free. This is from the BVA website:

A pet passport is still needed for pets moving between the UK and the Republic of Ireland. This was the case before the changes on 1 January 2012 and remains the legal requirement. However, as both the Republic of Ireland and the UK have had no indigenous rabies for many decades, compliance checks on pets travelling between the two countries will not be applied. The checks were also not applied before the rules changes on 1 January 2012, so pet owners will not see any changes on the ground. There is discussion at an EU level of introducing derogations on vaccination between rabies-free countries. Please see our members brief (below) for more details as this will be updated as the situation progresses.

[/quote]

So that's precedent for ignoring other daft EU regulations then when they serve no useful purpose

Hopefully any stray dogs crossing the border region will remember to bring their passports with them

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

mariette asselbergs — Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:17:55 GMT

"You need to contact every one of your clients you have given this incorrect travel advice to and set things right. It's all very well saying that hardly anyone is checked but that's no comfort for the one in a hundred who is, and has been advised they don't need a pet passport to travel to Holland, France or Belgium. A phone call to VDS would probably be in order too if this is what you have been telling clients." Nial

Wow, do I need to get under my desk now fearing the postman with a letter from VDS?

For your peace of mind Nial, I do not give my clients advise about what is needed or not to travel with their pets legally. I refer them to the various embassies of the countries involved, exactly because I do not check daily if rules have changed. I will do the vet work and advise on the dangers of tickborne diseases etc, but leave the legal stuff to the knowledgeable sources.

Mariette

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Charlotte Marshall — Thu, 12 Sep 2013 16:45:32 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]The only exception I know of is that pups under 12 weeks of age are accepted into Holland without rabies vacc but even they still require a pet passport.[/quote]

This is something that is up to the individual country and France may also accept a puppy under 12 weeks of age with a passport. I looked it up on the French version of MAFF's website for a client.

Charlotte

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 11 Sep 2013 15:02:59 GMT

My client who often travels to and from Switzerland told me today that in addition to not always been checked on exit or re-entry, last time they couldn't find the chip (it is low down on the right shoulder although that is mentioned in the passport and I found it easily enough when I scanned it today at its annual health check) but nonetheless waved her through, 'because you're holding up the traffic'! Is this an appliance of common sense or derogation of duty?

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:39:57 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

As the Irish Republic is a different sovereign territory in the same way as France or Germany why should the rules differ?

[/quote]

The main function of the Pet Passport is to prevent transmission of rabies, and both the UK and Republic of Ireland are rabies free. This is from the BVA website:

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Bob Russell — Wed, 11 Sep 2013 12:15:12 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"]

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]I expect my passport to be checked every time I travel in or out of the UK, except if going to or from the Republic of Ireland. I expect the same for pet passports, the trouble is that it is the responsibility of the carrier not the border agency to check pet passports, and they don't seem to take their responsibilities as seriously as they should.[/quote]

Have you met the officials at Stenaline going Dublin to Holyhead?!

You need a passport to get your dog on the ferry, not yourself!

Crazy of course, but they're only trying to follow EU harmoization...

You can travel from North to South or South to North of Ireland and bring your dog, you can travel from the North of Ireland to the rest of the UK and vice versa and bring your dog, but don't think about travelling from Dublin to Wales with a dog unless you have a rabies vaccine, microchip and passport to prove it...

I'm still to get confirmation from colleagues in the North as to whether they now intend to provide rabies vaccines and wait 21 days before "referring" a dog to Dublin vet school... and if they don't then will the vet school quarantine it and give rabies and wait 21 days before sending it back

[/quote]

The whole point of the changes last January were to bring the UK in to line with other EU countries. If it had not been done sooner or later there would have been a legal challenge.

As the Irish Republic is a different sovereign territory in the same way as France or Germany why should the rules differ?

Perhaps dogs in NI should be vaccinated on the off chance that they may need to be referred!

If the requirement to get passports reduces the number of Irish strays that are imported to the UK then it can only be a good thing IMO! Last time I looked we had a big enough problem of our own.

I would have preferred the blood test to remain but remove the six-month wait but EU law prevents us having different rules without picking a fight!

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Niall Taylor — Wed, 11 Sep 2013 11:33:43 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]Well yes, this is convincing and I didn't know things had changed, doesn't make sense to me but if this is the law now, then better prepare clients. [/quote]

This has always been the law since the begining of the pet passport scheme in 2001 or whatever - nothing has changed!!!

And before that things were even tougher as pets needed individual export certificates to get to Europe.

You need to contact every one of your clients you have given this incorrect travel advice to and set things right. It's all very well saying that hardly anyone is checked but that's no comfort for the one in a hundred who is, and has been advised they don't need a pet passport to travel to Holland, France or Belgium. A phone call to VDS would probably be in order too if this is what you have been telling clients.

The only exception I know of is that pups under 12 weeks of age are accepted into Holland without rabies vacc but even they still require a pet passport.

Niall

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:46:35 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

Well yes, this is convincing and I didn't know things had changed, doesn't make sense to me but if this is the law now, then better prepare clients.

[/quote]

I don't think things have changed for travel between EU members, other than the UK, since Pet Passports were introduced, they have always had to have the microchip, rabies vaccine and then 3 week wait. I suspect no one has taken any notice of it because it's impossible to enforce.

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 10 Sep 2013 22:07:36 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]In practice though, as most others have reported, I have not seen any control coming out of UK to France[/quote]

We have travelled with ferry companies on different routes between UK and France and Spain and the paperwork for our dog has always been checked, and chips scanned, by the carrier, (in both directions).

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

mariette asselbergs — Tue, 10 Sep 2013 21:14:50 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]I didn't agree with the advise. If you come from officially rabies free UK there is no rule saying that your dog needs to be rabies vaccinated and wait 21 days and have a passport to enter Holland (or Belgium or France). [/quote]

I am afraid you are wrong Mariette. Animals travelling between EU member states have to have an up-to-date passport and rabies vaccination, with a 21 day delay before travelling.

http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/liveanimals/pets/qanda_en.htm

https://www.gov.uk/take-pet-abroad/rabies-vaccination-boosters

http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/liveanimals/pets/annex2c_reg998_03_en.pdf

[/quote]

Well yes, this is convincing and I didn't know things had changed, doesn't make sense to me but if this is the law now, then better prepare clients.

In practice though, as most others have reported, I have not seen any control coming out of UK to France, Belgium, Holland or Dublin travelling with dog(s) as recent as this year July. Between Dublin and Hollyhead no passport control for dogs neither coming or going, and no signs up about pets at all.

Mariette

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Ana Santos — Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:14:44 GMT

I did exactly the same mistake Mike for almost 1 year before recently an owner started refuting it. I was so sure about it that I had to call DEFRA for clarification. Within that year, no owner has ever complained. Still today I'm positive I had read that they could travel out of UK at anytime and only come back 21 days after. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

John Flynn — Mon, 09 Sep 2013 18:39:51 GMT

Have you met the officials at Stenaline going Dublin to Holyhead?!

You need a passport to get your dog on the ferry, not yourself!

Crazy of course, but they're only trying to follow EU harmoization...

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 09 Sep 2013 10:47:10 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

I always saw a pet passport much like a human passport - you need it to travel, but you won't be required to show it every time. You are in deep doo-doo if you don't have one when needed.

[/quote]

I expect my passport to be checked every time I travel in or out of the UK, except if going to or from the Republic of Ireland. I expect the same for pet passports, the trouble is that it is the responsibility of the carrier not the border agency to check pet passports, and they don't seem to take their responsibilities as seriously as they should.

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Dagmar Steele — Mon, 09 Sep 2013 08:25:00 GMT

yes, every pet traveling within the EU needs a pet passport. Rabies vaccination 21 days prior traveling, microchip prior to rabies vaccination. The UK is not at all different from the rest of the EU any more. If you want to com back in the EU from some other countries (Turkey, Tunisia, Romania) you need to have a rabies titer done. Worming differs from country to country. Croatia only accepts rabies if no longer back than one year, all other countries accept up to three years depending on vaccine data sheet.

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 08 Sep 2013 22:00:46 GMT

I am afraid you are wrong Mariette. Animals travelling between EU member states have to have an up-to-date passport and rabies vaccination, with a 21 day delay before travelling.

http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/liveanimals/pets/qanda_en.htm

https://www.gov.uk/take-pet-abroad/rabies-vaccination-boosters

http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/liveanimals/pets/annex2c_reg998_03_en.pdf

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Christina Smith — Sun, 08 Sep 2013 20:31:20 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

To be honest, I disagree with all of the above. In most European countries rabies vaccination is NOT obligatory and there is no requirement that dogs from the UK must be vaccinated, let alone wait 21 days before entry. It is for this reason that there is no check on dog passports for entrance in France, Belgium or the Netherlands when coming from the UK.

Mariette

[/quote]Do dogs require a passport at all to travel throughout the EU? I was always under the impression that UK dogs needed a passport to go to mainland EU. Before Jan 2012 dogs travelling to Norway were issued passports with the rabies pages unsigned.Now I believe they have to be rabies vaccinated due to the standardisation with other EU countries.

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Mike Dale — Sun, 08 Sep 2013 18:11:14 GMT

Last shot on this. Another of my colleagues just came back off leave and when I told him about our recent experience he was astonished. He had been on an DEFRA course last year when he was told that a dog could be vaccinated and head off straightaway on holiday provided it did not come back to UK for 21 days.

Clearly if the rules are so indeterminate as to confuse employees of DEFRA they must be in a bad way.

Same colleague last year challenged a "traveller" with an unvaccinated dog just bought in Europe. He was threatened with death. No chance of hanging on to the dog there, then. Reported to police who suggested he go on a course to learn to deal with angry clients. To their credit - Trading Standards followed up and while they never found the dog they did ascertain it had originated in Poland.

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 08 Sep 2013 16:14:25 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

I discovered to my amazement and horror that I had travelled on numerous aeroplanes with a scalpelblade in the foil in my wallet. Hope there are no highjackers on the forum....

Mariette

[/quote]

I emptied out my carryon and found a dozen used syringes and needles - I'd been through a good half a dozen airports in 2 years since I checked that pocket!!! :)

Re: Rabies vaccination information - did you get caught like me?

mariette asselbergs — Sun, 08 Sep 2013 11:58:29 GMT

"it's not a question of whether anyone "agrees" with it or not." (Nial)

Sorry Nial, I didn't mean to say I didn't agree with the rules, but I didn't agree with the advise. If you come from officially rabies free UK there is no rule saying that your dog needs to be rabies vaccinated and wait 21 days and have a passport to enter Holland (or Belgium or France).

Mariette