Are dogs realy just wolves?

Re: Are dogs realy just wolves?

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 22 Aug 2013 08:58:16 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]

A BBC tv program reported the Russians domesticated a wild dog / fox/ wolf ? population in a surprisingly short number of generations and all sorts of domestic traits emerged including altered coat colour, smaller size and temperament. Think it may have been Martin Clune's programme?

[/quote]

http://scienceblogs.com/thoughtfulanimal/2010/06/14/monday-pets-the-russian-fox-st/ Here you go - I remember reading about this, really interesting!

Re: Are dogs realy just wolves?

Richard Carter — Wed, 21 Aug 2013 18:45:53 GMT

There is a look you get from certain GSDs and rotties that makes you realise that you are basically lunch if they wanted it - is this anything to do with wolves or domestication?

Had the opportunity to work with lions and one got the same feeling - basically don't trip up or you are an obituary.

Re: Are dogs realy just wolves?

Niall Taylor — Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:33:05 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Didn't we have a thread on this earlier?[/quote]

http://www.vetsurgeon.org/forums/t/14157.aspx

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Why are dogs constantly compared to wolves particularly in respect of their diets?[/quote]

The reason dogs are equated with wolves rather than other more obviously omnivorous canids like foxes is that there is good evidence to show domestic dogs were originally bred from wolves (probably several times throughout history). RMB'ers prefer to ignore the fact that foxes are a perfect illustration that canids can live quite happily as omnivores so there is no good reason that dogs couldn't do the same.

Humans are known to have evolved major changes in our ability to digest lactose in a mere 5 to 6,000 years [http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Burger_etal_PNAS07_LCT-aDNA.pdf] so again, wolves could quite easily have done a similar thing with regards to starch, given they have been co-evolving with us for at least that amount of time (and probably much longer).

Cheers,

Niall

Re: Are dogs realy just wolves?

james herriot lied — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 23:51:16 GMT

Are dogs really just wolves?

Only if I'm still allowed to hunt mammoths and thump Mrs Herriot on the head with a club.......

I'd be interested in how many RMB/BARF exponents are also anti-Darwinists

Re: Are dogs realy just wolves?

John Flynn — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:47:11 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Why are dogs constantly compared to wolves particularly in respect of their diets?[/quote]

Funny, I seem to hear the comparison more often with respect to behaviour where normal words such as "family" or "household" are substituted with "pack" etc.

The suggestion that the same selective breeding that creates the body of a chihuahua may leave behind the mind of a primordial canid (with only the minor adjustment known as domestication) seems slightly eccentric to me.

I think such "evolutionary psychology" just as mock-able as it is when appearing with respect to humans (e.g. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alas-Poor-Darwin-Evolutionary-Psychology/dp/0099283190/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377030925&sr=8-1&keywords=alas+poor+darwin)

If wishing to investigate canine digestion or canine behaviour or canine whatever, then starting with a canine as we know and love it is probably a good start

Re: Are dogs realy just wolves?

Mark Holmes — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:13:16 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

Didn't we have a thread on this earlier?

It's a bit of a step – just speculative hypothesising, really – to go from their scientific findings that "Ten genes with key roles in starch digestion and fat metabolism also show signals of selection. We identify candidate mutations in key genes and provide functional support for an increased starch digestion in dogs ".... to a conclusion that "novel adaptations allowing the early ancestors of modern dogs to thrive on a diet rich in starch, relative to the carnivorous diet of wolves, constituted a crucial step in the early domestication of dogs"

Just saying.

This forum being what it is, I'd better point out yet again that I'm not a supporter of the RMB fanatics. (Although feeding a lot of raw meaty bony stuff clearly has some sense and plenty to recommend it.)

[/quote] Why are dogs constantly compared to wolves particularly in respect of their diets? There are plenty of canids available to chose from. Some with hypothetically a closer relationship to the scavenger/hunter type lifestyle of dogs.

Re: Are dogs realy just wolves?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:41:44 GMT

Didn't we have a thread on this earlier?

Just saying.

Re: Are dogs realy just wolves?

James Laidlaw — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:42:43 GMT

You'll never beat pseudo science with science Phil!