Dinosaur support?

Re: Dinosaur support?

bob lehner — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 10:16:17 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

There is much discussion about supporting our young graduates (and rightly so) but I wonder do many of you more mature graduates have issues with self confidence/self esteem? Indeed sometimes having that confidence knocked by those oh so knowledgeable younger vets.

I am now 20 years qualified & I often wonder what I have done with my life. I am a SA GP with no specialist knowledge or skills-"jack of all trades" if you like

[/quote]

Very interesting- as a true dinosaur GP/jack of all trades/master of none (nearly 40 years since graduating) I emphasis with a lot of what you say. I could write a small book on this whole topic - but to try and be brief:

A lot of the feelings you describe can be evidence of depression (see website of R C of Psychiatrists for a full list of the symptoms - but they include feeling unhappy all the time, low self-esteem, loss of confidence etc.). Worth looking into.

I have had students and assistants who have gone on to great things - diplomas, professorships, owning corporate practices etc. This sometimes makes me feel completely inadequate and I too wonder what I have actually achieved. In my day one did not require extreme A levels to get into vet school, the clinical training was frankly abysmal (at least at my college) and most of us entered mixed practice. The explosion of knowledge and technology in the last 20 years or so and the move away from mixed practice has required us dinosaurs to try and keep up with the super-bright youngsters arriving on the scene. I sometimes read clinical stuff on these forums and wonder if I am on the same planet. However occasionally I see even the most extremely super-confident and competent youngster slipping up and making a fairly basic error and that strangely enough makes me feel a little better.

Re partnership - it isn't necessarily the solution to your problems. The veterinary scene is littered with unhappy partnerships -as many have said, a bad partnership is like a bad marriage, but even more difficult to get out of (and I have experienced both !). Having to work daily with a partner with whom you have become incompatible, grown to dislike personally and whose business strategy has evolved into something you are very uncomfortable with is extremely stressful and debilitating.

Anyway - there are some 16,000 vets in general practice in the UK - and the fact is that most of them achieve little of real note. A handful become prominent through veterinary politics, some establish unusually well-regarded practices, some become empire builders - but most just try and lead a blameless life, keep the majority of their clients happy, make a reasonable living, raise a family and so on.

Then you retire and are soon forgotten.....

Re: Dinosaur support?

Christina Smith — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 19:11:30 GMT

Arrogance of youth is such that others opinions don't count, as you get older you start to respect those opinions even if you don't agree with them. I am sure there are some very good quotes from wise minds. Shakespeare would be a good place to start.

Re: Dinosaur support?

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:48:45 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

Side comment:

[/quote]

Myers-Briggs is unscientific!! Surely not. You'll be telling me next that Homeopathy doesn't work.

Re: Dinosaur support?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:00:30 GMT

Side comment:

Re: Dinosaur support?

Utlendigur — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:34:42 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]do many of you more mature graduates have issues with self confidence/self esteem? [/quote]

Yep,daily - but I try to tell myself that it's better to be constantly looking for what I could do better, than being over-confident and feeling like I know it all

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I am now 20 years qualified & I often wonder what I have done with my life. I am a SA GP with no specialist knowledge or skills-"jack of all trades" if you like. I am an assistant, not a partner, which also causes me some embarassment. [/quote]

Yep similarly qualified, GP SA vet and not a partner either, but never wanted to be. Do you actually want to be a partner, or do you just feel you ought to be by now. I think many vets our age were qualified at a time when it was accepted that you were an assistant for a few years then became a partner. These days I think that is less set in stone with a tendency for vets to simply stay as assistants, take career breaks, do something different, move around more...I think it's more what you want, rather than what everyone else does, that's important.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Of course cpd is key here but I do struggle to keep up with it and find it difficult to become motivated[/quote]

Have you tried some of the online CPD eg webinars. I found these a godsend while trying to cope with caring responsibilities that meant travelling anywhere was a problem - they cover a wide range of topics so good for keeping up to date, and if you miss the live one you can watch the recording later (plus if you miss a bit, you can go back and watch again - good for the old memory issues)

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]but it would help to feel I'm not alone here.[/quote]

You are not alone!

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Heck- I'm probably having a midlife crisis :-([/quote]

Ditto

Re: Dinosaur support?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:17:45 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"] I see fellow graduates who have achieved much and have become very successful.[/quote]

I see former fellow students and young colleagues who have become professors, brigadiers, heads of this and heads of that. If it ever bothers me, I'll recall what they used to be like when I knew 'em!

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Of course cpd is key here but I do struggle to keep up with it and find it difficult to become motivated. My memory retention (never good) is terrible & studying is just another chore on my long list.[/quote]

I'd guess that this applies to the majority of us. Yeah, there's always a few clever types who can just absorb clever stuff on one reading, quote references off the tops of their heads and so on (they pop up on this forum occasionally ) but that's just their good luck. They generally disappear into "academia" because practice is not grand enough for them.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]what with juggling a family, coping with a strained marriage & a husband who has a stressful career.[/quote]

And an interfering mother in law. Seems to me you're quite an achiever.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Yup! Practice managers- Grrrr![/quote]

Saints preserve us from jumped-up "practice managers". Far too big for their boots.

Re: Dinosaur support?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:17:37 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Anon - not sure lycra is the answer.

If the clients are happy that is the main thing.

[/quote] Actually lycra may be the answer! I find cycling is very therapeutic and a huge stress reliever and keeping fit makes me feel better about myself. We all struggle to cope with work and self-esteem at times and although I own my own practice I don't earn even as much as some younger assistants in large practices but this never bothers me. There is more to success in life than earning money and running an empire, satisfaction of doing the best I can, self respect and that of my clients and my colleagues means more to me. It may not be an option to you Anon but I found setting up on my own was far less stressful than working for someone else and there is no way I would be a partner, there is no-one to criticise me and I can set my own timetable and agenda. However it does sound to me as though you're borderline depressive and it may be sensible to go and talk to a sympathetic doctor before it gets worse, colleagues and even family are not always the most sympathetic or the easiest to admit your feelings to especially in your case as you say your relationship is strained, perhaps you need to seek some guidance on that also. I'm afraid I come from the 'get a grip on yourself' school of psychiatry and I generally manage myself with that philosophy but believe me I'm now just starting to go through what has probably been the most stressful part of my career - planning for retirement. Things don't necessarily get better or worse they just change. Take stock of the good things you have, plan a holiday or just a trip out and look forward to it and remember, however bad you feel how lucky you are to be in as good a position as you are there are many who have it very much worse. You say you struggled to get to university - I did likewise and I could have ended up like my school mates ended up working in some dead-end 9-5 job in a factory. Think back to then and then think to yourself, like I do, that if I'd known then that I'd be where I am now I would have grasped it with both hands and given up a piece of my anatomy to ensure it.

Re: Dinosaur support?

Robert Jenkins — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:49:04 GMT

Bob: I couldn't agree more!

Mind you the best thing I did was to sell my practice and become an 'ordinary' vet again.

Anon you sound completely normal to me.

Re: Dinosaur support?

Bob Russell — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:24:21 GMT

I freely admit to clients that the longer I do this job the more I 'know I don't know'!

The younger members of the profession may have the confidence to spout that they know a lot but they will learn better in time!

There is a lot for those of us a bit longer in the tooth to learn from the 'youngsters' but even more for them to learn from us! Perhaps we use more short cuts but we generally get acceptable results perhaps at a more realistic cost to the owners.

I must admit I would quite like to do the whole thing again but knowing what I know now! I suspect I would just make different mistakes second time around!

I own my practice now but was a partner for many years. I promise it is not all it is cracked up to be - just different!

Re: Dinosaur support?

Braden Collins — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 02:43:52 GMT

Why be embarrassed about not being a partner? partnership isn't for everyone, and if you are already stressed becoming a partner won't help that. Success isn't just about making buckets of money or running a vet empire.

Perhaps when it comes to work you need to step back and assess what you want from your life outside of work first. When we started really looking at our business, the first step was to look at what we wanted from life. Step 2 was to work out what sort of business we needed to provide that, then step 3 was figure out how to make that business.

I think you need to really decide that you want from your life in general first. If getting a good nights sleep, having time for your family and minimising stress are your priorities, figure out what you need from your job to provide that.

Re: Dinosaur support?

An On MRCVS — Mon, 29 Jul 2013 22:14:40 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Anon - not sure lycra is the answer.

[/quote]

that did make me chuckle

[quote user="GrooveJet"] It's a tragedy that this whole profession is not more highly respected, and GP vets acknowledged as specialists in their own right!

[/quote]

Hear, hear!

[quote user="GrooveJet"] but have recently had a severe "clobbering" from management, which really left me realing and very insecure. [/quote]

Yup! Practice managers- Grrrr!

Yes, I know I am being self pitying & should count my blessings but when the underlying causes are cumulative (having a highly strung ENTJ- Myers Briggs anyone?- husband; young kids; interfering mother in law;working with people who make you feel stupid), it can be difficult

Re: Dinosaur support?

Miriam Lodewyks — Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:51:04 GMT

You certainly are not alone here. I'm in a similar boat: although I do feel that I AM a good GP vet ( depending on your definition of "good" of course) I also feel like a "jack of all trades, master of none". I can relate to many of your sentiments, and occasionally still feel out of my comfort zone. I try to embrace it as a "challenge" rather than look at it as a failing. Conditions I've never heard of MUST be rare as otherwise I surely would have come across them before, right?! I do have supportive colleagues which is great, but have recently had a severe "clobbering" from management, which really left me realing and very insecure. It's a tragedy that this whole profession is not more highly respected, and GP vets acknowledged as specialists in their own right!

Re: Dinosaur support?

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:38:55 GMT

Anon - not sure lycra is the answer.

If the clients are happy that is the main thing.

Re: Dinosaur support?

An On MRCVS — Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:29:59 GMT

Thanks for the words of support Christina. I suppose my main problems are (lifelong) problems with self esteem & mild depression. I think this is much more prevalent in women who tend to put their families needs first. I don't have the excuse of returning to work after a career break which Im sure would be very difficult.. I suppose I am a fairly competent vet but it doesn't feel that is good enough. I suppose I shouldnt be so hard on myself. I want to be superwoman (perhaps the perfectionist streak common to many vets) and am far from it. Oh well...

Re: Dinosaur support?

Christina Smith — Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:03:45 GMT

Yes I can relate to all of your sentiments. It descibes my situation almost exactly. Can't think of much to add or how to help. It's just about staying positive and counting our blessings. I still enjoy the animals and social interaction but never feel particularly good about my work. Luckily I still receive some good feedback and find mixing with other vets at cpd events useful. You are not alone so hang in there and hopefully things will start to look better. I would advise a cpd refresher course. I did 5 days at Bristol uni for women returning to work it gave me enough confidence to return after 4 years in limbo. Mixing with those in a similar situation helped greatly and made me feel better about my abilities. Hope that helps.