RCVS complaint about another vet

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

James Laidlaw — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 13:53:55 GMT

1 - Talk to the other vet (which has been done)

2 - Talk to the VDS, other staff at your practice about the case

3 - If still nowhere, talk to prof con dept - they're quite helpful too

4 - If sill nowhere and serious enough then you can make a complaint, and if you feel strongly enough then maybe it's worth doing (provided all other avenues are exhausted)

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 11:18:53 GMT

As I've said (on another thread) the system is only as good as the people operating it. You've been lucky. I was when I started with them-not when I left.

Wynne

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 11:16:31 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Roboxley Your OOH provider transports animals Vets Now didn't

[/quote]

Our local Vets Now don't routinely transport animals, but there have been several occasions when they have because owners have been unable to, and on one occasion the vet brought the animal himself so he could talk directly to me about a complicated case.

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 10:21:17 GMT

Roboxley Your OOH provider transports animals Vets Now didn't

Wynne

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 08:53:47 GMT

In reply to the original question, I have never reported another vet to the RCVS. I don't think I would ever feel happy doing it, but if I felt that their behaviour was consistently a danger to animals under their care, and that there was no other way of changing their behaviour, such as starting with a friendly chat, getting someone else more appropriate to talk to them, perhaps gradually moving on to a more blunt explanation of what I thought they were doing wrong, then I would feel that I had no choice but to report them.

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Linda Filshie — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 00:31:42 GMT

Perhaps it's worth a look at the Serious Fraud Office website - this probably doesn't meet the threshold of serious fraud, but there should be some useful resources nevertheless: http://www.sfo.gov.uk/fraud/fraud-in-your-organisation/worried-about-your-situation.aspx

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Rob Loxley — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 23:46:48 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]This vet has clearly broken the law and as such I do feel obliged to report them[/quote]

Clearly this is large scale fraud and needs reporting before you get dragged in further

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Rob Loxley — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 23:45:45 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Further grievance is that owners are required to transport pets back to referring practice[/quote]

Your tarring brush is out again; we use an OOH provider (not V.N.) and either we or they transport the animals.

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Stephen Courtney — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 22:18:07 GMT

Keep records and cover your ass. trust no one to look after your interests. and be scrupulously honest with your insurance paperwork.

But you know all that. I'm not sure how to deal with the thrust of the OP's questions - if you can prove what has happened, and document it, then you need to decide of you gift that information to the police/ insurance companies etc. Bearing in mind you might be involved in some unpleasant legal issues for years to come.

Personally, I'm glad I've never been in such a position as you - and i don't know what i would do, but i do know what i ought to do...however I'm no crusader.

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 13:28:19 GMT

Is this the original anon or a different one? Could the original anon go in to a bit more detail without naming names.

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Bob Russell — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 13:10:06 GMT

As there are legal implications talk to VDS before you do anything.

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 12:50:10 GMT

An On This is one you have to report-for your own protection. You might otherwise be implicated in a prosecution The police are the right people to contact Distasteful, but this isn't an isolated mistake This is criminal fraud-and on an extensive scale. It will only be a matter of time before one of the owners quarrels with a neighbour (who has previously been told about the fraud) the neighbour goes to the police-the fraud squad descend on you

Wynne

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 12:43:48 GMT

Jonathan Of course they do some good work-it depends on the individual veterinary surgeon. It's just my overall opinion has been "too little too late" There's also a great reluctance to visit-even when I would say necessary-cause of the present controversy Further grievance is that owners are required to transport pets back to referring practice-check Gto PC

Wynne

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

An On MRCVS — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 12:33:29 GMT

After starting in my current job I discovered that the previous sole charge vet had got up to some legally (and morally!) dodgy stuff. I came across a number of cases where the previous vet had diagnosed a condition, then upon finding the animal uninsured advised the owner 'euthanase' their pet on the clinical records and re-register it under the name of a friend/neighbour. Then once being insured the animal (under a new surname) could magically be diagnosed with a 'new' condition and be booked in for surgery/work up safe in the knowledge it would not be a pre-existing condition on their insurance policy.

Aside from the ethical issues it's been a headache for me to deal with the owners who have explained the situation to me, some of whom are clear they're breaking the law and others who are oblivious. We've had several clients leave as I refused to sign their claim forms. I dread to think how many claim forms I've unwittingly signed that may have been insurance fraud, but there's no way of knowing unless the owner tells me.

This vet has clearly broken the law and as such I do feel obliged to report them. He's now a joint venture partner elsewhere although still in the same geographical area. I discussed the case with the RCVS as I was worried should it be investigated I may be implicated. The RCVS are apparantly unable to investigate the case unless I provide them with written evidence, which I can't imagine would go terribly well with my boss so I've thus far done nothing.

Anyone else been in a similar situation?

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

J G Wray — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 12:03:03 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]I'm not surprised the "dedicated" OOH sector is getting a bashing[/quote]

Nice - do you suppose they do any good work and possess greater expertise and knowledge than some?

JGW

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 11:29:25 GMT

I would only complain if:

a) the offence was serious

and b) personal complaints had got nowhere

I wouldn't slam someone for an isolated and genuine mistake I would if they simply couldn't be bothered

Wynne

PS I'm not surprised the "dedicated" OOH sector is getting a bashing

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 11:07:48 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[/quote]

???????

From another thread:

I have written to prof con to get their opinion on how this practice is being marketed. I obviously have concerns as this is a couple of miles from me, but I am also genuinely upset that they are selling the message to clients that consultation fees can be dropped altogether and that all you lose is the profits, rather than making the business completely unviable. This may be 'The UK's First Non-Profit Veterinary Surgery' (how do charitable clinics feel about this tagline?) but I'd also like it to be the last that markets itself in this way.

[/quote]

Why anon?

However, in answer:

I have written to prof con to get their opinion on how this practice is being marketed.

No formal complaint, and certainly not related to clinical activities - which is what I assumed the thread was about.

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Dagmar Steele — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 10:27:48 GMT

I would, but only if I was convinced that this is not a single mistake but someone really incompetent or worse acting fraudulently. Mistakes do happen and no one is safe from making one. What makes the difference is how you deal with them, towards the customer and in the team. I have heard stories of vets making skin incisions and suturing them up claiming they have done a spay. If I could prove such a thing I would report it for sure. But I have made some mistakes myself along my way, never covered them up and always tried to learn from them. I am grateful that I haven't been reported for these, I didn't take them lightly....

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 10:10:44 GMT

If you feel strongly enough about this report it. It won't be done anonymously, you will be asked to file a formal complaint and the other vet will know who the complainant was so be prepared for some acrimony. If you really feel someone has acted so badly it requires this action follow your convictions we're not a 'boys' club if there's a rotten apple it needs to be removed.

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

An On MRCVS — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 09:30:43 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[/quote]

???????

From another thread:

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

J G Wray — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 07:23:21 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Would you feel okay about making a complaint to the Royal College about another vet or have you ever felt the need to do so ?[/quote]

Yes. I was given little choice, by an owner, a policeman.

JGW

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

An On MRCVS — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 01:01:37 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]How bad was what they did, is it part of a pattern, and are you basing your thoughts on what owners have told you or heard second hand? It would have to be severe and deliberate to report another vet. And always ask yourself the question, could it have ever happened to me? Don't do it unless you know the answer to all these questions. And then sleep on it for a couple of days to really think it through.

[/quote]

Based solely on my examination and what the emergency vet has told me over the phone themselves . Yes , it could have happened to me , perhaps as a very new grad , but I started in a practice where I could always call another vet for advice over the phone so it never really did happen in reality . I have never come across this person before .However , it is not the first time we have had occasion to complain ( to the clinic ) . And I will definitely , try , to sleep on it . Thank you for your observations .

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 00:56:12 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]And always ask yourself the question, could it have ever happened to me?[/quote]

A sound answer

I've seen missed pyometras, foreign bodies, inappropriate use of medications as an OOH vet and you know what', I've supported the vet everytime. It's all too easy to criticise, and believe me I've heard the comments at meetings in lunchtime conversations 'Oh yes we use an OOH provider but we wouldn't work like that' I'm typing this in the safe knowledge that 16 vets sleep soundly in their beds tonight having enjoyed life this evening, maybe watched the Wimbledon Highlights or Tour De France, I don't know who won the sprint today as was dealing with a blocked cat, I'll find out later today.

Neil

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 00:54:33 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

Hmm......It's a tricky one !

[/quote]

Then stop agonising about it .

Re: RCVS complaint about another vet

An On MRCVS — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 00:50:16 GMT

Okay , thank you , Neil , I put it out there to see if anyone was better informed . I intended it as a question . Vets Now is not the only provider in the sector , any further comments would be welcome too