Career advice

Re: Career advice

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 02 Jul 2013 08:26:23 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Thank you everyone for your advice. I definitely need to get out of here! Do you think I would be poorly regarded if I worked in a shop/pub/similar to fund myself whilst seeing practice? I wouldn't want to appear to be incompetent to the point that I was unable to work at all as a vet, but quitting my job and doing so is the only way I could get necessary experience.

[/quote]

Absolutely go for it. Anyone with an ounce of sense understands that there's a recession on and Tesco doesn't 'knock a bit off' the bill. Seeing practice is important but food on the table is simply essential. I have a classmate who did two years as an FA on EasyJet and then got the job she wanted, worked out fine. Not so much seeing practice but kept up on CPD and parlayed her FA experience into a job. (Hey, crisis management, customer service, dealing with difficult clients, lifting heavy things; she was ideally qualified!)

The boss that doesn't understand this? ...well, maybe you didn't want to work there anyway.

Re: Career advice

Hanna Bennett — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 22:15:29 GMT

as a prospective employer i would far rather see on someone's cv that they were trying to solve the problem than sitting on it and hoping it would go away - we employed a vet last year who was working part time at the PDSA, volunteering at a local clinic a day or two a week, and locumming at weekends at another local practice - she is fab and an asset to our practice - it is showing that initiative that i look for.

Re: Career advice

Hanna Bennett — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 22:15:13 GMT

Re: Career advice

Bob Russell — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 17:46:45 GMT

If there is a job you like the look of, be honest at interview, admit you need a bit of help but are keen to learn. You may be surprised how well that may be received.

It can be refreshing at interview to hear honesty rather than bullshit!

You are not incompetent, you are inexperienced - there is a world of difference!!

Re: Career advice

An On MRCVS — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 17:40:52 GMT

Thank you everyone for your advice. I definitely need to get out of here! Do you think I would be poorly regarded if I worked in a shop/pub/similar to fund myself whilst seeing practice? I wouldn't want to appear to be incompetent to the point that I was unable to work at all as a vet, but quitting my job and doing so is the only way I could get necessary experience.

Re: Career advice

Anthony Todd — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 17:31:48 GMT

[quote user="Busybee"]+1 for the neutering clinic idea -[/quote]

And another +1 x10 cubed, and watch the fastest operator and learn from him/her. [You may have to ask him/her to go slowly....]

If you can spay a cat and dog well you can do most routine vet ops.

The slickest surgeon will be the one that gives you the best advice and is the most ready to give it. Ask him to watch and instruct you, the good ones are always helpful! And they usually tell you how slow and hopeless they were when they started; if they don't they're not truthful.

Leave your present position before you're pushed.....

Re: Career advice

James Laidlaw — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 17:26:28 GMT

Don't be too down on yourself either - you've gained experience from the surgeries you have done and the consults as well. They all count for something.

Re: Career advice

Clive Ansell — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 17:22:09 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="Gareth C."]

you dont need to go abroad to find a busy neutering clinic. a busy one in the UK would be good for 6-12months

[/quote]

I have seen some pretty lousy spay jobs done at neutering clinics so perhaps be a little selective!

[/quote]

I would agree 100%.

There are some pretty abysmal low cost sweat shop clinics that I have worked in where standards regarding sterility and quality of surgery are very poor. If advising a younger colleague seeking to improve their surgical skills I would suggest going somewhere that does it well, to a high standard, and ideally with someone to mentor you.

I was very lucky as a final year student. I spent 8 weeks at an RSPCA clinic with a fantastic mentor and I was grateful for all I was taught, . He would make sure that every thing was done well and spent lots of time teaching me to suture, place drapes, avoiding getting in to bad habits or cutting corners. Nothing flash, no brain transplants or hip replacements, just learning to do basic day to day surgery well.

Re: Career advice

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 12:03:28 GMT

http://www.bsava.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=4GXzy50AdpM%3d&tabid=141

BSAVA's doing a student/new grad stream at their Scottish Congress - might be helpful for you? Don't know how far Edinburgh is for you.

Re: Career advice

Bob Russell — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 11:52:23 GMT

[quote user="Gareth C."]

you dont need to go abroad to find a busy neutering clinic. a busy one in the UK would be good for 6-12months

[/quote]

I have been qualified for a lot of years and have considered taking a month off to help out abroad somewhere! The main problem putting me off is I bet I am too slow for the clinics (I take as long as it takes!) plus have never done much orthopaedic work!

A recent graduate has much more excuse for being slow and limited experience - I wish I had been able to do something like this years ago!

I have seen some pretty lousy spay jobs done at neutering clinics so perhaps be a little selective!

Get the hell out of the job you are in. Do something that will stand out on your CV that will build your confidence and basic skills. The rest will fall in place from there!

Re: Career advice

Gareth C. — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 10:41:58 GMT

you dont need to go abroad to find a busy neutering clinic. a busy one in the UK would be good for 6-12months

Re: Career advice

Zoe Davies — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 10:33:34 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]Is there a new graduate network (BVA?) in your area that you could join to make a few contacts locally?[/quote]

The BVA Young Vet Network (YVN) has a range of resources to support recent grads. We hold YVN meetings across the country which are free to attend and open to members and non-members up to eight years qualified. Anon, they’d be a great way of meeting other young vets in your area and realising that you’re not alone in what you're going through. You can find your nearest meeting here.

Re: Career advice

bob lehner — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 09:39:50 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]Regrettably, this is likely to be a recurring story.[/quote]

Indeed. I frequently wonder on my travels where is the job satisfaction for a highly intelligent, highly educated veterinary graduate stuck in a very basic branch surgery in a heavily over-vetted area, doing little more than vaccinations and as you say meeting targets for wormers and flea products.

This is a very common scenario in some parts of the country.

My advice to the questioner is to leave asap - do some charity spay work and then go for a better job - this time with the benefit of hind-sight you will have a better idea of what you are letting yourself in for.

Unfortunately there will always be gullible new grads willing to fill the gaps in the market.

Re: Career advice

Malcolm Ness — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 09:11:58 GMT

Regrettably, this is likely to be a recurring story.

In the dear dark days beyond recall when I qualified (early 1980s) there were approximately 300 graduated with me. Many of them went into farm work and some went to work for the Govt. The rest went into SA practice where many of us were quite busy and from time to time we met with one of the handful of (predominantly) antipodean vets doing the locum circuit. Today, we have more than 600 home grown vets graduating each year plus (according to RCVS) a similar number of mainland European vets registering. Farm practice now employs relatively few vets and other sources of veterinary employment are similarly scant. Most are going into SA practice - problem is that there has been no significant increase in the number of pets - in fact, dog numbers have reduced and been replaced by cats - a species that is much less demanding of veterinary services. The upshot is a cake that is being sliced ever thinner - average transaction fees have increased relentlessly as we recognise a need for pets to be vaccinated and anti-parasiticised to an extent never previously dreamed of and now we know that teeth need to be primped and polished without limit. But when it comes down to the basics, you can only spey each bitch once and if anything, our increased expertise in preventative medicine has reduced the number of sick and broken things to fix.

Sorry to sound like a prophet of doom, but sound as the above advice is, we, as a profession will have to get used to the fact that the times are changing and some/many/most of our recent graduates are simply never going to see enough surgical cases to get competent or treat enough medical cases to stay interested.

Re: Career advice

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 00:00:10 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"] I've been trying to get out since the reality if the job hit me but have been rejected from everything I've applied for as I'm surgically useless [/quote]

As well as what everyone else says, apply for new jobs as if a new graduate. Explain exactly in your application why, and what's been happening. Then all you've lost is a year.

Are there any proper practices in your area? If there is one, and you apply to them, they may already know all about the weird outfit you are working for.

Re: Career advice

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 23:41:21 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]my non-vet boss[/quote]

There's your problem.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I had my appraisal last week, when I was told they'd 'not bothered' supporting me as they thought I'd leave anyway, and threatened with closure of my branch if I don't make things improve. It's great to feel valued![/quote]

Jeez. Get outta there.

[quote user="Utlendigur"]Over eight years! How is it still open?[/quote]

Never mind how, why?

Re: Career advice

Utlendigur — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 21:35:26 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]The branch has been running at a loss for eight years since bought out (and was running at a loss prior to that anyway).[/quote]

Over eight years! How is it still open?

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]threatened with closure of my branch if I don't make things improve[/quote]

You are being made a scapegoat! Even an experienced vet would struggle to turn around a branch that has been failing for nearly a decade in the space of a few months), with no support. Your bosses are at fault here

I really think that leaving would be best, even though it feels like a leap into the unknown. The longer you stay, the more confidence you are going to lose - especially with bosses like that. Is there a new graduate network (BVA?) in your area that you could join to make a few contacts locally?

Re: Career advice

Busybee — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 21:09:39 GMT

My last post went up before I'd read this bit! If I were you, I'd get out of there sharpish! Forget talking to your boss; as a new grad, the most important thing is support, support and more support. Go to a neutering clinic, volunteer at another vets, try and get some part time paid work ideally with animals, and start again with your career. Just please don't stay there.

Re: Career advice

Virginia Campbell — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 20:26:27 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]threatened with closure of my branch if I don't make things improve[/quote]

You're a vet, not a professional poo polisher. Given the competition and current situation you describe, I would be very surprised if this branch stays open. When it closes, it won't be your fault.

Re: Career advice

Busybee — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 19:45:52 GMT

+1 for the neutering clinic idea - I did one straight out of uni 3 years ago, feel free to PM me for more information if you're interested.

By all means, speak to the boss to see if things can be changed - you going to the bigger surgery (if there is one!), shadowing the boss on ops days, introducing new ideas to the branch surgery etc. Otherwise, it sounds like you need to get out before you lose even more confidence!

Re: Career advice

An On MRCVS — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 19:44:31 GMT

I think we're so quiet as we're based in a small town housing 8 other practices, two of which are corporates. The demographic of our clients is such that they have little loyalty, and tend to go from one branch to another depending upon who has offers on what. I think a lot of clients just don't know we're there either! The branch has been running at a loss for eight years since bought out (and was running at a loss prior to that anyway). For the few clients we do have, I feel I can't offer a complete service as I don't have the skills to do full work ups and operations (despite my non-vet boss not being able to understand why I can't just 'have a go' at orthopaedics etc out a book!). We have a few other branches in the area, but they are all single vet too rather than there being a main hospital. I've spoken to a lot of the charity neutering clinics as really keen to do something along these lines and am currently saving up to go. I've got married and moved house this year so only have a couple of days holiday left and can't ask for unpaid leave (as there's just me!). hence another reason I'm thinking of quitting and working in a shop/bar so I can spend time off doing something to advance my career. I had my appraisal last week, when I was told they'd 'not bothered' supporting me as they thought I'd leave anyway, and threatened with closure of my branch if I don't make things improve. It's great to feel valued!

Re: Career advice

Helen Wallace — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:35:47 GMT

Second the neutering clinic idea. It might also be worth approaching your boss to ask if you could spend one day a week at the main clinic to gain experience if its busier there. Also consider talking to management to see if anything can be done to attract more clients to the branch. Why is it still so quiet... and no its not down to you before you go blaming yourself. Is the location wrong? How does pricing compare to competetors?

I'd also consider seeing if you can get some practical cpd under your belt as that will help your confidence as well as your ability.

Re: Career advice

tess — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:33:42 GMT

What Liz says sounds like a great idea. Then when you apply for new jobs you can demonstrate that you've taken positive action to improve your surgical skills.

Can you ask for a transfer to the main surgery for a time? Are you due for an annual review when you can express your concerns?

Re: Career advice

Liz w — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 16:47:49 GMT

Could you take holiday and offer to do a couple of weeks in a neutering clinic? It probably wouldn't take long to get up to speed if you're doing enough in a short space of time. Have you thought about the charity places abroad?