Pet Ambulance Service

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Utlendigur — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 11:05:47 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]I have fitted a leonberger and a bernese mountain dog in the back of our Smart car - [/quote]

Not quite as extreme but I did get a huge Old English Sheepdog in the back of a mini metro. The dog was in status epilepticus so the owner and I managed to get it into my car (on a blanket) but I had to leave the car parked outside the surgery while I waited for the nurse to arrive and help me unload it. Late evening, mini metro with steamed up windows, rocking backwards and forwards, and attracting quite a bit of notice from people leaving the restaurant next door - I was fully expecting a police car to pull up alongside

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Anthony Todd — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 10:56:15 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]black cab driver [/quote]

They are known as "black cabs" [v mini-cab] We'll have to plug in the hyphen.....

It's a strange state we've come to when we leap to the racist interpretation so automatically.

I suppose a "colonial " driving a cab painted black would get me into trouble again?

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Robin Grimmer — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 10:51:21 GMT

No, you would be obliged to visit the collapsed Newfie and relieve its suffering by pts if necessary. But it's not the vets responsibility to transport the animal back to the clinic.

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Clive Ansell — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 09:35:37 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

Many Asian taxi drivers will refuse to take animals I find, always ask the question when booking.

I used to have a good relationship with a black cab driver in the Birmingham area, he would happily attend for home visits

[/quote]

Don't wish to indulge in any racial stereotyping, but interesting that a black cab driver was more animal friendly than an Asian one.

If he was, as you say, happy to do home visits I guess he wasn't a recently out-of-work Zimbabwean MRCVS moonlighting as a taxi driver ?

[/quote]

Sorry, badly worded post

Should read "driver of a black cab"

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

bob lehner — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 09:27:57 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

Many Asian taxi drivers will refuse to take animals I find, always ask the question when booking.

I used to have a good relationship with a black cab driver in the Birmingham area, he would happily attend for home visits

[/quote]

Don't wish to indulge in any racial stereotyping, but interesting that a black cab driver was more animal friendly than an Asian one.

If he was, as you say, happy to do home visits I guess he wasn't a recently out-of-work Zimbabwean MRCVS moonlighting as a taxi driver ?

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

mariette asselbergs — Fri, 28 Jun 2013 22:40:05 GMT

"I have fitted a leonberger and a bernese mountain dog in the back of our Smart car - albeit not at the same time "

Ha another smart car vet! I once drove at night with the back full of my kit and in the passenger seat next to me (this is a left hand driven vehicle) a dead (euthanised) spaniel. I kept my fingers crossed that no police would stop me........!!

Mariette

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Becky Filby — Fri, 28 Jun 2013 22:14:02 GMT

We have a local woman who runs a pet taxi service 24/7 that seems to work quite well. She doesn't charge much more than a normal taxi (I think £10 or less during the day depending on distance and a little more at night) and will help lift large dogs etc. She seems to keep pretty busy with us seeing her at least once most days, often more,and she travels to a couple of other practices in the area as well so there seems to be a reasonable demand.

We still do a fair number of house visits as a practice, although mainly during the day for euthanasias. Still do some OOH visits particularly for long standing clients but it does give us a solution for those calls where the owner claims they have no transport/can't manage on their own/had a drink etc but something doesn't quite seem right. Usually the unregistered or rarely seen client. Amazing how many of these don't quibble the cost of the OOH house visit initially but when a pet taxi is suggested to bring the pet down state cost as the reason they cannot do this!

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 28 Jun 2013 08:51:09 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]I have noticed a correlation between requests for home visits and clients who would rather not pay their bill![/quote] It is a potential pitfall but we always make sure the client is aware of the charges before we go and that they will have to pay by cash there and then or a credit card and the card details are called through to the surgery while I'm still at the house. Hasn't failed yet.

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Rob Loxley — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 23:18:07 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]supposing the only practice vehicle you could afford was a micro-mini and you couldn't fit a collapsed Newfie in it[/quote]

I have fitted a leonberger and a bernese mountain dog in the back of our Smart car - albeit not at the same time

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Clive Ansell — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:32:48 GMT

[quote user="alison howell"]

You could use a taxi if desperate - although maybe not for a transfer...

There has got to be a business opportunity there for an established taxi firm to add animal taxi-ing to their service

[/quote]

I have done, but I get the client to book and pay for it if possible.

Not sure about there being a business opportunity. It is anecdotal, but I have noticed a correlation between requests for home visits and clients who would rather not pay their bill!

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:13:35 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

I've cycled to work today, my partner is using my car and there is no practice vehicle. Have you ever tried carrying a 100Kg Newfie on a bike, be good for training I suppose

Seriously, what would I do if I had to attend a house call or transfer a critical patient?

[/quote] I also cycle to work most days in the summer (well winter as well for that matter) and I have done house visits on my bike, I work out what I reckon I need then take it in my rucksack. If all else fails I would cycle the 5 minutes back home and get a car. I feel we can't be held responsible for the inability to transport a huge animal to the surgery if it is practically impossible, after all farm vets wouldn't be expected to transport a sheep or a pig, the owner surely has to assume responsibility at some point for their choice of pet and make adequate alternative arrangements.

I've just had a feeling of deja vu that we've said all this before! I

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

vs0u — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:07:43 GMT

You could use a taxi if desperate - although maybe not for a transfer...

There has got to be a business oportunity there for an established taxi firm to add animal taxi-ing to their service - they already have cars and drivers, all they would need is to have some drivers that like animals a bit, and a large dog crate on wheels plus a ramp they can go and pick up from HQ and stick in the back of their estate car taxi. They can charge a bit extra to normal taxi-ing. No wasted time of an ambulance sitting around and not much outlay for the company.

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Clive Ansell — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:54:26 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Thought for the day: supposing the only practice vehicle you could afford was a micro-mini and you couldn't fit a collapsed Newfie in it would you be guilty of professional misconduct for not transporting the animal back to the clinic?

[/quote]

I've cycled to work today, my partner is using my car and there is no practice vehicle. Have you ever tried carrying a 100Kg Newfie on a bike, be good for training I suppose

Seriously, what would I do if I had to attend a house call or transfer a critical patient?

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:34:25 GMT

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Clive Ansell — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 12:09:07 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Do many taxis take animals though?[/quote]

A lot of them do. Cats and small dogs. Not collapsed old Newfies and frolicking Labs run over by grain lorries. Then it's back to being Yourproblem (not Owner'sproblem)

[/quote]

Many Asian taxi drivers will refuse to take animals I find, always ask the question when booking.

I used to have a good relationship with a black cab driver in the Birmingham area, he would happily attend for home visits or to bring animals to the surgery at almost anytime. He could lift a great Dane unaided, useful chap to know. He charged fairly high fees though.

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 11:57:17 GMT

Anthony I think the main reason for the difference in the American attitude, and that of so many in this country is that they don't have a NHS and neither is their social security so ridiculously over generous-so people are aware of their responsibilities-not of their "rights." Sigh

Wynne

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Wren — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:45:29 GMT

One of our ex-kennel assisstants left and set up a pet-walking/pet-sitting business and she also did pet-taxiing too. She brought in a lot of elderly non-driving clients for their appointments and was happy to do out of hours transport for roughly just over what a taxi would charge - the bonus being that she didn't turn her nose up at big/smelly/bleeding/collapsed animals. Worked quite well.

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 26 Jun 2013 19:43:58 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Do many taxis take animals though?[/quote]

A lot of them do. Cats and small dogs. Not collapsed old Newfies and frolicking Labs run over by grain lorries. Then it's back to being Yourproblem (not Owner'sproblem)

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Clive Ansell — Wed, 26 Jun 2013 14:15:59 GMT

one of the independent OOH clinics I worked for had an ambulance when it opened in 2001, but it was taken off the road after less than 12 months as it was not financially viable. Buying, running and maintaining it plus the cost of on stand by drivers was just prohibitive. The suggestion that user practices financed it fell upon deaf ears, none of them would embrace the idea of raising fees across the board to provide the service.

The use of it for home visits didn't really work. Often drivers were not available or obtainable, meaning vet and only nurse had to do any visits leaving the clinic unattended which was strictly against policy and a disciplinary matter.

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

mariette asselbergs — Wed, 26 Jun 2013 14:01:01 GMT

The practice I work in consists of about 5 GP practices at 5-9 miles from the main practice/hospital. There are three ambulances, fully equipped, which provide mobile clinic work during the day (no visit cost), and ambulance services in picking up pets, bringing them home and transporting them from the OOH hospital to their own practices. In the mean time they also do deliveries of goods and post between the satellite practices and the main practice. They are driven by animal care assistants. They are not on standby during the night though, but could be used by the night vet in case he/she would need to do a home visit. However, the problem of abandoning the hospital would then arise. I suppose a large vet group like this can afford to have these ambulances and it looks like it works out OK.

Mariette

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Bob Russell — Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:40:43 GMT

We had a good ambulance service about 10 years ago. It folded less than 18 months later.

The practice offered to cover the cost for genuine out of hour patients that had to travel to the OOH clinic (credit to account not hard cash!) but even this did not help it survive.

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Christopher Saul — Sun, 23 Jun 2013 13:16:50 GMT

I think an ambulance service is in theory fantastic; for as well as solving many of the OOH issues it could also solve the problem of how to transport patients between the OOH centre and the client practice. It would also improve the service we can offer in the day ( e.g. helping owners who cannot get to the surgery very easily)

The problem is how to make it financially sustainable. I suspect the only way to do it might be to have a service jointly owned by many practices within the area; but then this would then raise other problems, and I'm not sure how competition legislation would get in the way also.....

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Anthony Todd — Sun, 23 Jun 2013 13:05:08 GMT

Oh dear!

Do many taxis take animals though?

How come the Americans seem to manage then without having to do visits??

Do american owners take responsibility for their pet's transport and the Brits don't or won't?

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

David Mills — Sun, 23 Jun 2013 12:44:10 GMT

I've seen them used in London. There are some major problems:

1. Impossible to get at night. And I mean, completely impossible.

2. If you can get during the day a 2-3 hour wait is about standard.

3. No cheaper than a taxi. If you think they are doing fewer pick ups per hour than a taxi, with each taking a longer amount of time, then financially unsustainable.

4. Absolutely no staff training. They essentially have to be big enough to lift a 40kg dog and that's it. Essentially come and dump the dog/cat and then leave.

These are just a few, some admittedly over-comeable, but others not. The finances of it are problematic, especially OOH - to pay a driver to sit around all night is just feasible and would lead to pricing out of the market. The other thing is the waiting time, especially in cities - they are not as convenient as taxis, their journeys take longer, and there is no increase in rapidity of the animal being seen (which defeats the point of them somewhat). It is not unknown for them to wait for payment or wait for the owner to go to the cashpoint for payment whilst the animal just waits there.

Re: Pet Ambulance Service

Phil Hyde — Sun, 23 Jun 2013 12:39:29 GMT

[quote user="glen mcintosh"]

This idea has been tried, in earnest, in the context of dedicated OOH emergency clinics and failed miserably for all concerned. It was not economically viable.

Also, Albring used an ambulance service, and he was still suspended for not attending a house visit.

I still think it is an excellent idea, and may provide a business opportunity for some people, but it will not be the answer to this problem.

[/quote]

Actually, I think that, in this case, an ambulance was the only realistic answer as long as the owner was in agreement (or even if they weren't). Unfortunately ambulance services will not be economically feasible everywhere. They are very expensive to run and very difficult to manage.

As for using an independent service - DON'T DO IT! I tried this years ago, before we were forced into doing it ourselves. We used two different services, both started off well but became appalling. AND THE RESPONSIBILITY IS YOURS! If you advise using an independent service and they cock up - the buck stops with you. It happened to us, added to which there is the 'non-caring attitude', the delays, the misunderstandings, the verbal abuse, and even the pissing in the car park in front of the clients!!!

We fund ours in part using practice subscriptions, but this has not always been well appreciated. Finding full and part-time drivers is not easy. We even had a rcvs complaint from a neighbouring practice that our ambulance drivers were not qualified! (To do what??).

Good grief.

Phil