Neighbours and animal welfare issues

Re: Neighbours and animal welfare issues

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 12:54:44 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Actually, if you're giving evidence as a professional witness, it isn't your duty to represent whoever (prosecution or defence) happpens to be paying you.We're (as a profession) far more moral than solicitors(very apt term considering what they do). Our duty is to present clinical facts, including (since the AWA came in) whether or not unnecessary suffering is likely to occur, in such a way that lay people (magistrates/jury) understand.In this case,who pays, is irrelevant

Wynne

[/quote]

You've missed the point Wynne. I almost wish I hadn't brought it up. If somebody's threatened with prosecution by the RSPCA, RSPCA will have engaged a veterinary surgeon to speak on their behalf, who will present all the arguments in favour of guilt. If the accused/victim engages a veterinary surgeon to speak or act on his behalf, it's the moral and professional duty of theat v.s. to present arguments against guilt. The truth should be strictly adhered to by both sides at all times.

I've been in this situation. The offender was in fact almost - almost - un-defendable, but I had to put things in the best light I could and counter some of the wilder demands and accusations of the RSPCA and Trading Standards Officer, as my professional duty to my client. The only other option for me would have been to to cease to be the client's v.s., but I chose not to take this course since everyone is entitled to a defence. The RSPCA officer, who I knew well and with whom I had already worked on some inspections and prosecutions, was very put out that I would not enter into a sort of cosy conspiracy against the accused.

Re: Neighbours and animal welfare issues

Bob Russell — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 11:50:45 GMT

Make it clear it would be unprofessional to be their vet because you could not guarantee 24 hour cover and therefore it would be unethical!

Stay nice. If there are problems some busybody will call the RSPCA anyway who will probably come over and do very little! (bitchy smiley)

Re: Neighbours and animal welfare issues

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 11:42:15 GMT

Wynne

Re: Neighbours and animal welfare issues

Miriam Lodewyks — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 10:21:20 GMT

Or is that the opposite of what Dagmar is saying? Either way, it's a sticky, tricky situation.

Re: Neighbours and animal welfare issues

Miriam Lodewyks — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 10:19:56 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]

.... I know there are cultural differences between Brits and Germans, being blunt is much easier over here!

[/quote] I agree entirely with Dagmar, also with the fact that being honest is often construed as being "blunt" or "rude" in this country.

Re: Neighbours and animal welfare issues

Julie Innes — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 09:16:24 GMT

I second (third? fourth?!!) not getting involved. Say nicely that you don't do veterinary work for neighbours etc outwith the practice, as it complicates things (I usually say something vague about RCVS rules!) and that you don't keep drugs in the house, so they will need to register with a large animal practice for their horse.

It's hard to bite your tongue, and sometimes I think it's ok to tell people gently that you don't really agree with what they are doing. I had this a few weeks ago- one of my daughter's friend's mums proudly told me that she was buying in a litter of puppies from Ireland, to sell (presumably on gumtree) I did try to be polite, but I couldn't help but make it obvious I thought it was a really bad idea (understatement!!- grrrrr!!!) To be honest, it has really put me off the woman, who is also a client with her own dog. I wouldn't mind losing her as a client.

Re: Neighbours and animal welfare issues

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 07:11:54 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]

oh dear. Don't get involved. Pray for the RSPCA coming round rather sooner than later taking the horse where it should be - with other horses. Personally I would just tell them the truth. That I like them, that I feel they don't listen to my advice, that I think what they are doing is wrong and that I don't want to be involved because I want to stay friends with them. Trying to negotiate your way through this minefield will only get you blown up.... Would it be possible to do that in the UK? I'm seriously asking because I know there are cultural differences between Brits and Germans, being blunt is much easier over here!

[/quote] If I was a vet, this is what I'd do to. I don't think it means being blunt, just candid, and that is nearly always a good thing (I think).

Re: Neighbours and animal welfare issues

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 22:34:55 GMT

I'm with Evelyn on this, try to stay out of it, and to my mind that would include avoiding doing any veterinary work too. I would feel this would make it harder to keep a dispassionate view of things, and as Evelyn said, they may well then expect you to back them against the RSPCA. Can you get out of doing the vaccinations on the basis of not being able to cover emergencies as your practice is too far away? And surely a miniature colt will need ga to geld, unless someone is going to break their back getting that low down! My suspicions would be that the RSPCA wouldn't prosecute if the animals are in good condition but would advise, hopefully strongly, that this situation is far from ideal. And then hopefully follow up to see that their advice is being followed. We are lucky in having good local inspectors, with whom we can have a quiet word if we are worried about a case they are already involved in. And generally the local decisions on prosecution round here seem to be fairly sound. Good luck!

Re: Neighbours and animal welfare issues

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 21:11:20 GMT

Re: Neighbours and animal welfare issues

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 21:10:46 GMT

Stay out of it.

Probably there will be anonymous whispers and snide insinuations that you are "complicit" in "abuse". But there will be anyway. Rise above it.

You've done everything you reasonably can anyway.

Just stay out of it.

But - it's always possible that iif your neighbour is prosecuted, he comes round to you and asks you to speak or act on his behalf. You don't have to, but if you feel you would like to or ought to, remember you are a professional acting on behalf of a client and you must put him in the best light you can (just as a solicitor must) - the RSPCA may try to inveigle, persuade or threaten you into a sort of conspiracy against him. Resist.

Otherwise, did I mention, stay out of it.