Cat cafés

Re: Cat cafés

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 07 Jun 2013 11:24:36 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]No, but I don't like the idea in principle. I haven't been foxhunting but I am against that too.[/quote]

Who's talking about the murder of a wild animal for sport? What a peculiar, and logically invalid response.

I asked in what capacity you gave your opinion, based on a press release, about a business involving domesticated pets (likely taken from shelters) interacting on their own terms with humans, and others of the same species, in a positive manner, where the humans have specifically chosen to go there because of the animals. You've admitted that you have no first-hand experience of this but it is based on a logically fallacious extrapolation from fox hunting. Strange world.

[/quote]

Just making the point that I can have an opinion on something without having witnessed it first hand, that's all. It's the first one of its kind in the UK, so unless I've been to Vienna or Tokyo recently, I'm unlikely to have been to one.

Re: Cat cafés

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 19:32:07 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

I know the feeling.....I am also in agreement with David.

Think I need to see the doctor....

[/quote] So who was red star man this time, I know he deserves one usually but we all seemed to be getting on so well.

Re: Cat cafés

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 19:20:57 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Well amazing as it may seem I'm in agreement with David [/quote]

Don't worry honey, it happens to everyone eventually. Best just to accept it.

[/quote]

I know the feeling.....I am also in agreement with David.

Think I need to see the doctor....

Seriously though......if people want to get on their high horse about animal welfare, cats being fussed over and spoiled in a cat-orientated environment is hardly a number one concern!

Re: Cat cafés

David Mills — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 19:12:29 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Well amazing as it may seem I'm in agreement with David [/quote]

Don't worry honey, it happens to everyone eventually. Best just to accept it.

Re: Cat cafés

David Mills — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 19:11:02 GMT

[quote user="Kay Colquhoun"]

The benefits of the human animal bond were important elements in the joint BSAVA and ICC statement, and there is no doubt that those unable to have pets at home would benefit from the opportunity to interact with cats in an appropriate environment. It was felt by both organisations, having recently been asked to comment, important to outline the need to place animal welfare as a priority in any venture of this kind.

[/quote]

Oh, come come. You didn't just comment on animal welfare. You positively condemned the practice without 'behaviourist' supervision - a complete overreaction. Do the BSAVA comment on, say, boarding kennels and insist on veterinary behaviourists? What about rescue places? And in what capacity is this behaviourist selected? Who are they regulated by?

The press release was designed primarily to generate publicity. Instead, it comes across, to the general public, as a complete overreaction to an innocent enough proposal where it appears animal welfare is pretty easy to ensure. The smart thing to do would tone it down somewhat - or is BSAVA trying to make its mark in the same ilk as BVA?

Re: Cat cafés

David Mills — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 19:05:25 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]No, but I don't like the idea in principle. I haven't been foxhunting but I am against that too.[/quote]

Who's talking about the murder of a wild animal for sport? What a peculiar, and logically invalid response.

Re: Cat cafés

mariette asselbergs — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 17:43:33 GMT

I am really puzzled about this principle Robin. In the video you can see how the cats enjoy being fussed over. And obviously you are not going to have shy or asocial or grumpy cats in a cafe. If you agree with the idea of pets in families (for the entertainment of their humans) then what is the difference of cats in a more gregarious human environment? As long as they have a way out and choose to be in.

Mariette

Re: Cat cafés

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 17:36:28 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Louise Alexander"]This is an awful idea. Really very unfair for the cats who are made to sit in the cafe with everyone,[/quote]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]I don't agree with it. I think their welfare could be compromised. [/quote]

have either of you two, or the BSAVA, actually visited one of these things?

[/quote]

No, but I don't like the idea in principle. I haven't been foxhunting but I am against that too.

Re: Cat cafés

Kay Colquhoun — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 16:07:56 GMT

Re: Cat cafés

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 15:23:22 GMT

Well amazing as it may seem I'm in agreement with David (the second time in a week I must be feeling unwell!). Its not quite in the same league as the rent-a-pet schemes that are popular in the USA where someone takes a dog home for while then takes it back when they've tired of it. Whose position is it to pontificate that a pet is better off in a single home or with a single owner which they assume is suitable when we know from experience that many are not, at least this way the pet gets more than one shot at it.

Re: Cat cafés

Mark Holmes — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 14:14:48 GMT

I would be more interested in a statement from the FSA and the HSE. I cannot imagine food/drinks being served and animals being allowed in THIS country - we Brits are far too frail for such a hideous idea

Re: Cat cafés

David Mills — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 13:46:23 GMT

[quote user="Louise Alexander"]This is an awful idea. Really very unfair for the cats who are made to sit in the cafe with everyone,[/quote]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]I don't agree with it. I think their welfare could be compromised. [/quote]

There are a hell of a lot of assumption in these statements. The cat cafes in Tokyo and around have free access for the cats to come and go as they please - most choose to stay, and lap up the free frothy milk and any number of other things they might be offered - or sleep. I can't see how the London one would be any different. From the silly over-reaction of BSAVA and others (the ICC response I think, is proportionate, and its a shame its been tarnished in a joint release with BSAVA) anyone would think these cats are being imprisoned and stroked against their will - as if such were likely with a cat.

Maybe I'm making too much of this, but wading in with such words as 'awful' and 'compromised welfare' on the back of a press release - have either of you two, or the BSAVA, actually visited one of these things? - just gives the wrong impression to the general public: it comes across as judgmental, pompous and ill-informed ivory-towering. God forbid the general public come into contact with cats used as a marketing strategy, or profit booster, hell they may even adopt one of the 1000s of strays in shelters. How terrible.

I would really like to know how you think cats housed in shelters up and down the country are remotely anywhere near better off.

Re: Cat cafés

Kay Colquhoun — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 11:43:33 GMT

A full statement from BSAVA and International Cat Care can be found here http://bit.ly/11tQRkH

Re: Cat cafés

Tim Browning — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 08:43:52 GMT

The AWA clearly defines correct companionship and ability to express normal behaviour as two of its five welfare needs - I expect this lady will be promptly prosecuted by the CPS for failing in her duty of care!.....

Re: Cat cafés

Louise6732 — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 07:44:53 GMT

This is an awful idea. Really very unfair for the cats who are made to sit in the cafe with everyone, I really hope they consult a behaviourist about how to best modify the environment so the cats can get away if they need to. I hate to quote the five freedoms but freedom from fear and distress and to express natural behaviour will be heavily compromised. Just awful. I hope they change their mind. Louise

Re: Cat cafés

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 20:14:20 GMT

I don't agree with it. I think their welfare could be compromised. Cats are pets, not there for people's amusement while they sip their cappuccinos.

Re: Cat cafés

Clair Firth — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 19:13:04 GMT

There is one here in Vienna, it opened last year I think:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18049097

I haven't been there myself (already have 3 cats at home so don't need a cafe for a "cat fix") but the cats on the video seem quite chilled out

Lots of apartments in the city have a ban on keeping pets, so maybe it's not such a crazy idea