Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

Re: Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

crazedndazed — Fri, 31 May 2013 22:37:54 GMT

Thank you everyone for your advice, you've been very helpful.

Re: Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

Lizzie Lockett — Wed, 22 May 2013 09:58:09 GMT

There is a chapter of supporting guidance to the RCVS Code of Professional Conduct on this which you may find useful:

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/code-of-professional-conduct-for-veterinary-surgeons/supporting-guidance/giving-evidence-for-court/

It also has lots of sources of further info listed at the end.

Best wishes

Lizzie (RCVS Coms)

Re: Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

Clive Ansell — Wed, 22 May 2013 08:05:29 GMT

And here's one from a court case I was involved with several years ago. It was a cruelty case involving a Yorkie with a skin tumour on the back of its neck the size of a grapefruit and 25% of bodyweight which had burst and become necrotic and infected.

Lawyer: How long was the tumour present before the RSPCA visited you?

Defendant: It has been there since January, but we didn't notice it until July.

Re: Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 21 May 2013 19:13:58 GMT

The old ones are still the best. This might cheer you up;

These are from a book called Disorder in the American Courts and are things people actually said in court.

_______________________________
ATTORNEY: What gear were you in at the moment of the impact?
WITNESS: Gucci sweats and Reeboks.
____________________________________________
ATTORNEY: Are you sexually active?
WITNESS: No, I just lie there.
____________________________________________
ATTORNEY: What is your date of birth?
WITNESS: July 18th.
ATTORNEY: What year?
WITNESS: Every year.
_____________________________________
ATTORNEY: How old is your son, the one living with you?
WITNESS: Thirty-eight or thirty-five, I can't remember which.
ATTORNEY: How long has he lived with you?
WITNESS: Forty-five years.
_________________________________
ATTORNEY: This myasthenia gravis, does it affect your memory at all?
WITNESS: Yes.
ATTORNEY: And in what ways does it affect your memory?
WITNESS: I forget..
ATTORNEY: You forget? Can you give us an example of something you forgot?
___________________________________________
ATTORNEY: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?
WITNESS: Did you actually pass the bar exam?
____________________________________

ATTORNEY: The youngest son, the 20-year-old, how old is he?
WITNESS: He's 20, much like your IQ.
___________________________________________
ATTORNEY: Were you present when your picture was taken?
WITNESS: Are you sh*tting me?
_________________________________________
ATTORNEY: So the date of conception (of the baby) was August 8th?
WITNESS: Yes.
ATTORNEY: And what were you doing at that time?
WITNESS: Getting laid
____________________________________________

ATTORNEY: She had three children , right?
WITNESS: Yes.
ATTORNEY: How many were boys?
WITNESS: None.
ATTORNEY: Were there any girls?
WITNESS: Your Honor, I think I need a different attorney. Can I get a new attorney?
____________________________________________
ATTORNEY: How was your first marriage terminated?
WITNESS: By death..
ATTORNEY: And by whose death was it terminated?
WITNESS: Take a guess.
___________________________________________

ATTORNEY: Can you describe the individual?
WITNESS: He was about medium height and had a beard
ATTORNEY: Was this a male or a female?
WITNESS: Unless the Circus was in town I'm going with male.
_____________________________________
ATTORNEY: Is your appearance here this morning pursuant to a deposition notice which I sent to your attorney?
WITNESS: No, this is how I dress when I go to work.
______________________________________
ATTORNEY: Doctor , how many of your autopsies have you performed on dead people?
WITNESS: All of them. The live ones put up too much of a fight.
_________________________________________
ATTORNEY: ALL your responses MUST be oral, OK? What school did you go to?
WITNESS: Oral...
_________________________________________
ATTORNEY: Do you recall the time that you examined the body?
WITNESS: The autopsy started around 8:30 PM
ATTORNEY: And Mr. Denton was dead at the time?
WITNESS: If not, he was by the time I finished.
____________________________________________
ATTORNEY: Are you qualified to give a urine sample?
WITNESS: Are you qualified to ask that question?
______________________________________
And last:

ATTORNEY: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: Did you check for blood pressure?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: Did you check for breathing?
WITNESS: No..
ATTORNEY: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began the autopsy?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
WITNESS: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.
ATTORNEY: I see, but could the patient have still been alive, nevertheless?
WITNESS: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law.

Re: Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 21 May 2013 19:05:25 GMT

What everyone has said. Stick to the facts, give a veterinary opinion firmly and confidently but don't let yourself be drawn into speculation or hypothetical questions. "I'm sorry, I cannot answer hypothetical questions or matters beyond my knowledge" addressed to the magistrate (as all answers should be, even though the solicitor is asking the questions).

Dress smartly. It really does make a difference.

Forgive me, though, if I take Wynne up on this:

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] Lawyers are prepared to morally prostitute themselves,by arguing on behalf of criminal low-lifes.[/quote]

On the contrary, Wynne, the lawyer is doing his job, and a tough and occasionally distasteful one. This is still, just about, a free country. Every accused is entitled to a defence. It's not for the solicitor to determine his guilt even if he is guilty. Otherwise you'd have a system as in China (and other countries too) where lawyers are intimidated from defending, or merely go through vague defending motions, because the state has already deemed the accused guilty and the trial is merely a show.

Re: Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

Bob Russell — Tue, 21 May 2013 17:38:15 GMT

As mentioned above most cases you are called but the case does not get to court because the defendant comes to his or her senses just before the court date.

Do not let the RSPCA call you an expert witness - they tend to like this term. Again (as stated above), you are a qualified vet giving your opinion. I suspect a true 'expert witness' will be charging a heck of a lot more than your fees will be! The RSPCA love a bargain 'expert' but you can be caught out by the defence this way.

VDS should give all the guidance you need. You are to give evidence and an opinion that is all.

If the case gets cancelled at the last minute make sure you (or your practice) still charge appropriately for the costs that will have been incurred. The RSPCA are quite good at the guilt trip to save themselves money. They are far richer than you or your practice!

If you do get there speak confidently but don't be drawn into giving opinions on things beyond your knowledge.

If all else fails imagine the magistrate or defence solicitor naked! Apparently works for nervous speakers!!

Re: Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

Simon Neuhoff — Tue, 21 May 2013 17:25:38 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Lawyers are prepared to morally prostitute themselves,by arguing on behalf of criminal low-lifes.The more you feelyourself superior to the defence solicitor-the easier it will be tp not get flustered

Wynne

[/quote]

Don't want to derail this thread - but wow. Just wow.

Re: Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

Andrew Mellor — Tue, 21 May 2013 17:18:00 GMT

Have been called myself 14 or 15 times for the rspca, as yet I have only given evidence twice , most of the time the rspca barristers etc have picked the case and will not waste the charity money on cases that are not fairly clear cut. all the rest have actually pleaded guilty on the morning of the court appearance. In actual fact unless you have one of the truely horrific cases the only thing you have to do is tell the truth, do not be drawn into giving wild opinions on how long the animal has been suffering , they will pick you up on those things , stick to facts. Use the 5 freedoms and the animal welfare act to give you guidance.

PM me if you want any more help with specifics.

Re: Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 21 May 2013 16:29:30 GMT

You are a professional witness-which is half way between expert and lay witness of fact

Firstly-my very best wishes.

Secondly-try to book the day out-so ypu're not stressed and flustered arriving in court.

Thirdly-if the defence solicitor tries to rattle you-just remind yourself that YOU are superior-as their university entrance requirements were lower than ours-also remind yourself that you are morally on the side of right, as you are defending the animal. Lawyers are prepared to morally prostitute themselves,by arguing on behalf of criminal low-lifes.The more you feelyourself superior to the defence solicitor-the easier it will be tp not get flustered

Again-my very best wishes. Both VDS and Forensic and Law Association are good places to get advice

I've done a lot of this work-so if you PM me I'll try tohelp

Wynne

Re: Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

Sylvia Wilson — Tue, 21 May 2013 16:10:09 GMT

You are a witness of fact, not an expert witness in this case, although you may well be asked to give your opinion, as a veterinary surgeon, of the animal's condition and the cause of your referral.

As well as speaking to VDS, you might wish to contact the British Veterinary Forensic and Law Association (www.veterinaryexpertwitnesses.co.uk )

Re: Expert Witness in RSPCA Case

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 21 May 2013 15:38:05 GMT

Then you are not an expert witness. That is a very specific legal term. You're just a witness.

Have a chat with the guys at VDS they are very helpful.

Best to write down everything you remember and make sure you did everything via the correct channels as the defence may try and pull your testimony to bits.