Herbal Medicine literature

Re: Herbal Medicine literature

a.bardell — Sun, 28 Apr 2013 11:12:09 GMT

There is a british association of veterinary herbalists which you can contact and there is also a modular herbal medicine course that is being run by intergrate cpd, both of which have some useful contacts.

There are a few of us out here using herbal medicines in our practices who are always ready to discuss and share with others in the profession.

Re: Herbal Medicine literature

John Flynn — Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:34:33 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Do love the digoxin/aspirin arguments. Used for centuries by people- eat plants for swollen ankles, chew bark for a headache. Must be right. Explicit examples of herbs beocming medicine in the last 20y? Absolutely none.[/quote]

I think that there's a fair few of the useful drugs we use today that have their origins in plants: opioids and atropine (OK I guess that's not strictly a plant...) would be 2 more.

There may be more on their way, I really don't know, but there are definitely some in clinical trials in the last 20 years:

http://www.lamsam-casalotti.org.uk/Journal%20Club/pdf%20files/20101129Frances.pdf

Can I name a useful, original, molecule derived from plants from the last 20 years that I use in dogs/cats? No (but there could be some, I don't know).

Can I name a useful, original, systemic antibacterial derived from anything in the last 20 years that I use in dogs/cats? No (but again there could be some I'm not thinking of)

Can I name at least a dozen NSAIDs or other me-too drugs developed in the last 20 years? Easy.

Can I name a dozen 'vet-licensed' drugs that were in use long before they got manufactured specifically for dogs/cats? Easy

Big Pharm is more interested in tweaking an existing molecule for a new patent, or licensing a treatment used in pets to try to get a protected market-place (maybe vet-Addison's-drug next? Lifelong treatment and probably a profit to be made?) than the rather less predictable business of exploring for useful, innovative, new molecules; and I know the latter doesn't have to involve exploring existing molecules found in nature in plant-sources, but I do suspect there's probably a good few out there still...

[quote user="David Mills"]Happens to be that dig/aspirin were licensed years ago. If digoxin or aspirin were brought out now, not a hope in hell of being licensed. [/quote]

I don't know about that, spironolactone managed a European-license for dogs

I use digoxin for dogs with AF and rates above 160bpm maybe. This might be out-dated and as always I'd like to be updated if it is, but if the answer is use veterinary-licensed diltiazem instead than I think that's a little pricey usually...

Have a look down the list of drugs considered safe to use in pregnant women, how many of those were developed in the last 20 years? Paracetamol certainly wasn't.

Re: Herbal Medicine literature

David Mills — Sun, 28 Apr 2013 02:06:36 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"]as digoxin, aspirin etc.[/quote]

Do love the digoxin/aspirin arguments. Used for centuries by people- eat plants for swollen ankles, chew bark for a headache. Must be right. Explicit examples of herbs beocming medicine in the last 20y? Absolutely none.

Happens to be that dig/aspirin were licensed years ago. If digoxin or aspirin were brought out now, not a hope in hell of being licensed.

Bit like that argument about Atlee vs Maggie. He started the NHS!

Re: Herbal Medicine literature

dachsie_4 — Sat, 27 Apr 2013 19:54:20 GMT

I agree that herbal medicine can easily be misinterpreted - there is a difference between herbal medicine and homeopathy. I was interested I herbal, thanks for the links

Monika

Re: Herbal Medicine literature

John Flynn — Sat, 27 Apr 2013 19:18:12 GMT

I'm not a herbalist, but you could try http://www.herbalvets.org.uk/ for some book recommendations.

Other websites with info are:

http://www.nhs4animals.com/coursesforvets/index.html

http://abc.herbalgram.org/site/PageServer

http://herbmed.org/

I think the problem is herbal medicine means different things to different people.

I think of uses of plant-derivatives (usually purified) in medicine, such as digoxin, aspirin etc.

I don't know if there's a commonly accepted definition out there.

The sorts of things published under the name of "Herbal Medicine" tend to be a bit wacky for my tastes, though possibly no more so than some oncology for animals texts

A brief look at the online extract from http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iLbZDzumqt0C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false has all sorts of jargon that I don't think will be of much use to me, but if you want an explanation of the difference between a tincture of parsley and pharmaceutical-grade parsley extract then it'll probably be in there. Unfortunately I suspect you'll be disappointed by the illogical or unproven treatment recommendations that follow on from such descriptions... but then possibly not much more illogical/unproven than some of the things found in "conventional" medicine...

Speaking of "Bad Science", "Bad Pharma" is the other extreme to all this:

Imagine a world where in the UK a vet could use an unpurified plant-product (say tincture of foxglove leaves), or a proprietary-veterinary medicine to treat a dog ("Dog-oxin" - license for AF pending - £5 a tablet), but use of a purified plant product in the form of a pharmaceutical-product fit for humans (generic digoxin - cheap as chips) was banned - nuts, eh?

Re: Herbal Medicine literature

David Mills — Sat, 27 Apr 2013 17:21:42 GMT

Bad Science