2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Tom Lonsdale — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 05:47:29 GMT

Martin,

[quote user="martin whiting"]It would be great to see the discussion remain on academic critic of content and policy.[/quote]

That’s not been the experience this past 22 years since Breck Muir and I blew the whistle on the veterinary incompetence and corruption surrounding the junk pet-food fraud.

No discussion, only the denial of the undeniable and defence of the indefensible—throughout 22 years!

However, methinks much of the blame should be sheeted home to the RCVS regulator and those who head the regulator.

For instance the new Vice-President of the RCVS, Professor Stuart Reid, is he ‘fit for purpose and fit for practice’?

We know that he is the Principal of that den of iniquity, the Royal Veterinary College, University of London that takes in young school leavers, warps their minds and sends them out into the community spouting junk pet-food marketing jargon.

Some staff members at the RVC have been either on the payroll of junk pet-food makers or in receipt of pet-food company largesse.

According to the RVC website the RCVS operates a Nestle-Purina RVC Intensive Respiratory Therapy Centre

From my researches I find that Professor Reid is an expert in epidemiology although I have found no evidence of him writing on the epidemic of junk pet-food induced illness in pets, including the epidemics of periodontal disease, obesity and diabetes.

Perhaps of greater concern, the RCVS saw fit to entrust him with the Chairmanship of the Education Policy and Specialisation Committee and the Veterinary Legislation Working Party. Not only does the London school pimp its students to the junk pet-food industry but so do all the other UK vet schools. It would appear that Professor Reid has not seen fit to investigate and help resolve this crisis in veterinary education and legislation.

For what it’s worth Professor Reid makes no mention of any specific conflicts of interest in his RCVS Declaration of Interests.

Perhaps Professor Reid may like to join the discussion here. What a great opportunity for him to explain what he proposes to do, during his tenure at the top of the RCVS, about the biggest issue to face the veterinary profession this century.

All the best,

Tom

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Niall Taylor — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 12:41:24 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"]Sorry - I probably misunderstood[/quote]

Not at all, my bad I think, for making unwarranted assumptions about your post - 'pologies!

[quote user="John Flynn"]... what commercial pet food could you honestly recommend to a dog cat owner caring about animal welfare?[/quote]

Good question, and one that has set me thinking. As a family we try to behave as "ethical carnivores" as far as possible but, having read your post it occurs to me that we don't extend this to our pets, and commercial foods will certainly source the cheapest meat on the market - and cost usually varies directly with ethical and welfare standards.

There might be a marketing opportunity for a petfood company to capitalise on this gap in the market (in the same way that M&S have done by using only free-range eggs in their products), but it would be a very specialist and therefore costly line. I completely agree with you regarding the irony of people clamouring for cheap meat then throwing their hands up in horror when they hear about the welfare standards that imported chickens have to endure or that horsemeat has been discovered in burgers. People want it both ways and seem to be incapable of undestanding that if you want a quality producy you have to pay for it.

Until then, preparing one's own diets for pets at home is going to be the only way aroud that one.

Cheers,

Niall

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 09:14:57 GMT

[quote user="Tom Lonsdale"]

Arlo, As you previously remarked:

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Not that its really any of my business![/quote]

[/quote]

I made that remark WRT to what I believe to be your inability to perform the role of an RCVS Councillor from Australia. I think I'm allowed an opinion on RMB.

[quote user="John Flynn"]I think you're suggesting that the cow whose head is in the picture may have suffered.[/quote]

No I wasn't! I was making the point that in the sanitised, politically-correct, primarily urban country we now inhabit, it would be more likely that a member of the public would see a rotting carcass on the front lawn and assume that it is a matter for the RSPCA (if not the police).

[quote user="Tom Lonsdale"]I am under the impression that this is a veterinary forum and more specifically about my candidacy for the RCVS Council elections. I would expect pictures of small carnivores eating their natural food would have some resonance with a veterinary audience. After all the pictures are prominently displayed in my waiting room and serve as very useful educational aids.[/quote]

I think you might be a bit out of touch with British culture, Tom. My (albeit limited and dated) experience of Aussie culture is that it would be more tolerant of waiting room pictures of warm-blooded animals being torn to shreds on the front lawn by their precious poochums.

[quote user="Tom Lonsdale"]Would you rather that the heads and offal be transported to the rendering plant and thence into the cans of Science Death and other such related junk?[/quote]

Yes.

[quote user="Tom Lonsdale"]What do you think of this picture?[/quote]

I'm not squeamish. I spent 6 months in Australia shifting rotting sheep's carcasses, and watching farm workers bite off their testicles (the sheep, that is, not their own), But if you are offering me a choice between this:

on my lawn, let me assure you I'd opt for the former.

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Tom Lonsdale — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:51:22 GMT

Chris,

You ask:

[quote user="Christopher Saul"]

It is widely accepted, and on the basis of good peer reviewed evidence based medicine, that the survival in animals with chronic kidney disease can be significantly improved with dietary modification.

It is advisable to feed an alkalinising diet with low-to moderate protein, low phosphate, and high in n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids such as DHA and EPA.

Can you please explain how you would meet these guidelines within the framework of RMB?[/quote]

Sorry to say it’s questions like this that confirm the urgent need for complete overhaul of the bogus, incompetent and corrupt vet research and educational system.

You talk about the wide acceptance of the peer reviewed evidence base. But I say it’s a deeply flawed bogus system. Did you not read the previous posts on this from 2010 above? Have you not yet read Raw Meaty Bones?

You speak about chronic kidneydisease as if it materialises from nowhere when in fact it’s a direct result of chronic junk food poisoning and periodontal disease due to LACK OF appropriate raw meaty bones diet.

Cheerfully ignoring the aetiology the madcap ‘scientists’ then surreptitiously employ aspects of a raw meaty bones diet in an attempt at mitigation.

Raw meaty bones diets are balanced with respect to phosphorous and calcium and present no problem. Of course they are rich in EFAs.

Can you not detect the unfolding pattern?

Not long ago the same or similar madcap scientists were advocating kidney transplants for cats poisoned by junk food and suffering chronic kidney disease. (No doubt this was 'widely accepted, peer reviewed garbage too.)

Did you read the diabetes thread . Same situation, cat deprived of raw meaty bones, develops diabetes. Treatment is to stop the junk and reinstitute rmb.

Also in the diabetes thread the extract from Raw Meaty Bones detailing the Professor Michael Day Bristol researcher working on additives (usually rmb extracts like EFAs, Vit A, and E ) to offset immune consequences of junk food.

A recent circular from this website promoting a ‘bone shaped’ milk and rice chew to offset the effects of junk food.

On and on, the commercial confidence tricksters utilise whatever aspect of a raw meaty bones diet they can somehow incorporate – even if it’s only the SHAPE of the chew.

As Breck Muir so aptly put it in 1991:

‘Here we have the perfectly engineered commercial circle — a problem doesn’t exist, so we create one, and then come up with all the remedial treatments…’

Chris, if you still want an in depth critique of your ‘good peer reviewed evidence based medicine’ sources, then please send me the papers and I’ll take a look. But I can all but guarantee you they don’t meet basic standards, will deliberately ignore the two elephants in the room, be derived from research institutes or universities on the take from junk food makers or even be directly sourced from junk food company labs.

Cheers,

Tom

P.s Here’s another example from the e-vet list (the prevention and treatment using rmb):

In my clinical experience using (for example) Hill's c/d for blocked cats, they always came back to the clinic with a new obstruction going on (yes, I am one of the thousands of vet students receiving lectures about pet nutrition from Hill's manufacturers and others). I finally succeded with tx when told owners to feed their cats with natural raw diet: no more blockages ever since (nor allergies, dental problems, diabetes, etc). The problem occurs when we humans try to be smarter than Mother Nature or God -for believers-

Take care

Guillermo, from Lima Perú

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

John Flynn — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 19:38:37 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

[quote user="John Flynn"]

I think you're suggesting that the cow whose head is in the picture may have suffered.

[/quote]

If you believe that you have missed the point completely.

Niall

[/quote]

Sorry - I probably misunderstood. Even still, what commercial pet food could you honestly recommend to a dog cat owner caring about animal welfare? There may well be some out there I'm not familiar with, or perhaps some of the better known brands really do promote good animal welfare and I'm jsut not aware of it.

PS - I've also been told it is a sheep

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Christopher Saul — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 13:27:56 GMT

Tom,

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to one of my questions.

You would make a great politician, you reply to questions by skirting round some sort of an answer but not actually giving a direct answer to the question that was asked.

Could you prove me wrong on this point by directly answering the following please:

It is advisable to feed an alkalinising diet with low-to moderate protein, low phosphate, and high in n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids such as DHA and EPA.

Can you please explain how you would meet these guidelines within the framework of RMB?

Best wishes,

Chris

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Niall Taylor — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:35:31 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"]

I think you're suggesting that the cow whose head is in the picture may have suffered.

[/quote]

If you believe that you have missed the point completely.

Niall

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Tom Lonsdale — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 02:58:01 GMT

Re: Rotten Callous Venal Sham Elections

replied on

Wednesday, 24 Mar 2010 at 16:24

Michael Woodhouse:

other than your website and some other spurious links can you direct me to any published peer reviewed papers in any respected journal? We are in the era of evidence based medicine and personal testomonies and spurious websites hold no water.

Michael,

You do yourself no favours casting aspersions founded on strange unsustainable assumptions.

But file this forum correspondence anyway. One day you’ll look back with a mixture of disdain and amusement. ‘How could I be so indoctrinated, how venal and corrupt my ‘education’.’

Actually you could put your scornful post to good use in legal actions against the Royal Veterinary College (RVC) and other vet schools. It’s pithy evidence of how the junk food makers and their academic chums manipulate veterinary thought processes.

It’s against the law for vet authorities to be cruel to pet animals and worse still to indoctrinate young vets in the mass poisoning of pets. A few test cases should reveal the veracity of what I say. And hopefully there’ll be some hefty compensation payouts to the young men and women who were lured under false pretences only to have their faith and trust abused.

Did you read what Dr Tom Hungerford OBE; the grandfather of the Australian veterinary profession had to say?

Tell the people who won't review their views that: 'The foolish and the dead never change their opinions.' Maybe that is an overstatement - as the 'brain-dead' may also refuse to revise.

Anyhow there are many who adopt the stance of: Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.

Did you read Oliver Graham-Jones FRCVS’s Foreword to Raw Meaty Bones?

We have remained friends ever since . . . [I was] senior lecturer RoyalVeterinary College, London, where memorably Tom and I first met. It was entirely Australia’s gain to acquire such an outstanding practitioner who has never taken anything for granted. Indeed it was this very quality that helped him write these informative common sense observations about pet diets, disputing prepared foods and commending the raw meaty bones philosophy.

Please go back and examine what you call ‘spurious links’. Read in Raw Meaty Bones(any chapters but perhaps start with 10, 11 and 12) about the bogus ‘peer review’ system, the contemptible journals and the empty rhetoric of ‘evidence based medicine’. In fact you can see how an evidence based medicine expert was conned by the academics at the Royal Veterinary College if you check out the BMJ article I’ve posted in the files.

So Michael, it’s small wonder that the RVC academics conned you and your peers. But please help yourself to recover from the abuse; rediscover the value of common sense and then lend a hand in the campaign to stop further abuses.

Good luck,

Tom

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Tom Lonsdale — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 02:38:09 GMT

Re: Feed Roadkill, Win Best in Show at Crufts!

Saturday, 04 Apr 2009 at 13:38

G’day Wynne,

Good to see that you’re making an effort to come to terms with this. It ain’t rocket science, but it does require the right frame of mind (honesty, integrity, common sense, that sort of thing).

A retired Professor of Psychology wrote on another forum about feeding her 12Labradors and two Papillons:

After reading Raw Meaty Bones, I realized how simple it is to feed the best diet to my carnivorous Labradors — you just hand them large hunks of raw meaty bones, some organ meats, and some table scraps, as is convenient. As a . . . member wrote some months ago, you don't have to MAKE anything; you just have to SHOP. Ditto for my small carnivores, the 12-year old Papillons. I just hand them smaller RMB, liver or kidney a few days a week, and bits of our table foods.

The two hardest parts of feeding RMB are (1) getting past veterinary advice to feed only commercial kibble, and (2) unlearning everything you've been taught about ‘100% balanced and complete’ pet foods. The rest is pretty simple.

About the roadkill, first make sure you don’t get flattened by a car when out collecting food for your pets. I know it can be difficult over there, in the rain and the dark, so wear light coloured clothing and take a torch. Tasmanian Devils suffer high mortality scavenging carrion on the roads. Perhaps vets are not an endangered species, but nonetheless better to stay out of the statistics.

Of course, feeding whole prey animals of appropriate size to carnivores makes the most sense. And if that food is otherwise free and going to waste, then grab the opportunity. In the UK I’m thinking rabbits, hares, rats, pheasants, deer and wallabies (in the New Forest) all make for good carnivore tucker.

Wynne, thanks for assuming I get elected. I appreciate the positive vibe, but where am I going to find 1700 votes? Whether or not I get elected the RCVS are honour bound to look into the issues raised. If they’ve got an ounce of sense, and as a matter of urgency, they’ll set up a committee to look into this. (It will be incumbent on them to screen out those with junk pet-food ties and others with predetermined views.)

In my view they would be well to seek my advice early in the piece.

In the unlikely event that I get elected, then I believe that will demonstrate a mandate for change. It’s perhaps a bit premature to discuss exact mechanisms for ushering in the changes, but I suspect it will involve meetings with Deans of vet schools, Defra and other key institutions.

I think you may be taking things a bit far, raising the spectre of striking-off the ignorant and the obdurate. Somehow, we’ve got to turn round an education system that has been hoodwinked and hijacked. And from recent experience, do something about a political system that’s unsuited to the task.

Any ideas how you can get the RCVC President, incumbent Councillors and other candidates to address important issues?

Your comments please

Mrs Nute: Declaration of Interests

Feed Roadkill, Win Best in Show at Crufts!

Conflicts of Interest and Matters Arising

Meanwhile I hope that you will keep an open and active mind. Or as Tom Hungerford the grandfather of the Australian vet profession wrote:

Tell the people who won't review their views that: 'The foolish and the dead never change their opinions.' Maybe that is an overstatement - as the 'brain-dead' may also refuse to revise.'

Cheers,

Tom

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Tom Lonsdale — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 02:29:14 GMT

[quote user="Christopher Saul"]In another, much earlier post on this website you assert that 'Eminent veterinarians give resounding support' to your campaign, citing the late Tom Hungerford.

Could you elaborate further, or perhaps share your list of eminent veterinarians who would be happy to add support publicly to you? perhaps any holders of the DipACVN?[/quote]

Chris,

Thanks for your interest in this.

These days most vets wash their hands before performing surgery although as you'll be aware Semmelweis was for a long time a lone crusader. His detractors were guilty of many things, most notably the error of omission -- they refused to wash their hands.

In the veterinary domain things are arguably worse. Poisoning pets with junk food is a significant act of commission taught at every vet school on the planet.

Nevertheless there are vets who are prepared to speak out. In the current climate I consider any vet with the balls to stand up to the bigots should be considered eminent and a champion. Over the years a number of vets have spoken out and a good number have nominated me for election to the RCVS Council and to be president of the Australian Veterinary Association. Roger Meacock and Andrew Stephens are the two names on my ballot paper. Breck Muir is a long time fellow campaigner.

On my website you can see statements from the late Johan Joubert and David Cuffe. Many vets including Richard Allport and Pete Coleshaw speak out on forums. If you check under the flags at www.rawmeatybones.com you can see numerous translations (all done by volunteers) of Work Wonders: Feed your dog raw meaty bones. The French and Finish translations are both done by vets. The picture shows Hanni Wienkoop at a show in Finland with her information booth.

The Chinese and Greek translations are still in progress and both being done by medical doctors.

Lyn Thomson, Bristol graduate resident in NZ, gave up clinical vet and now just runs her four shops selling raw meaty bones. www.rawessentials.co.nz

Of the vets with public profiles and big reputations at stake, I'd mention the late Oliver Graham-Jones FRCS, long time RCVS Councillor, Arthur Hayward, pathologist and my RVC tutor, Douglas Bryden A.M, long time Director of the Sydney University Post Graduate Foundation in Vet Science, Richard Malik, arguably one of the brightest stars in the Australian vet firmament and of course the late Tom Hungerford OBE, grandfather of the Australian vet profession and founder of the Sydney University Post Graduate Foundation.

Following your mention of Tom Hungerford I searched the archives for past discussions. The following 2009 and 2010 posts both refer to Tom and provide extra background on the parlous state of the vet profession -- including insight into the Evidence Based Medicine delusion.

All the best,

Tom

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

John Flynn — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 15:05:18 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Who on earth wants that on their front lawn? In the world we live in, I'd be surprised if it didn't lead to a call from the RSPCA, just not on behalf of the terrier![/quote]

I think you're suggesting that the cow whose head is in the picture may have suffered.

I think this exemplifies the problem in consumer culture where people voice concerns for animal welfare, but then vote with their money for processed meat products, often either for convenience or cost.

Working in small animal practice, I personally suspect the single thing that a vet could do to improve animal welfare would be to encourage clients to consider the welfare of the animals that their pets eat, and I am yet to encounter a processed pet food that takes animal welfare seriously enough for me to be happy to endorse the product as promoting good animal welfare.

You seem to think the RSPCA should be called to the scene of a terrier eating a dead cow's head, without knowing the welfare conditions in which the cow was reared, lived and slaughtered; I would suggest that their time would be more fruitfully spent promoting their RSPCA Freedom Foods "welfare" brand to pet-food manufacturers - unless I'm missing something, the entire industry seems to be lacking any scheme to encourage good animal welfare conditions.

What food would you suggest to someone with a pet dog / cat who cares about animal welfare? (This isn't rhetorical, I'm genuinely interested in ideas)

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Christopher Saul — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 13:54:34 GMT

Tom,

It is advisable to feed an alkalinising diet with low-to moderate protein, low phosphate, and high in n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids such as DHA and EPA.

Can you please explain how you would meet these guidelines within the framework of RMB?

Many thanks

Chris

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Christopher Saul — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 13:33:17 GMT

Tom,

In another, much earlier post on this website you assert that 'Eminent veterinarians give resounding support' to your campaign, citing the late Tom Hungerford.

Could you elaborate further, or perhaps share your list of eminent veterinarians who would be happy to add support publicly to you? perhaps any holders of the DipACVN?

Chris

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Tom Lonsdale — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:41:49 GMT

[quote user="Christopher Saul"]Would it not be more helpful to work with the veterinary establishment to improve nutrition (If we assume for a moment that you do have a point) rather than campaigning against it?[/quote]

Chris,

Thanks for the good question.

Yes, it would have been better. Unfortunately from the get go the establishment worked assiduously to crush dissenting voices. In my case the establishment working with and for the junk-food makers brought five separate disciplinary actions against me. (Equivalent to five separate cases before a RCVS Disciplinary Committee stacked with junk pet-food supporters.)

In 2006 I visited the UK on a speaking tour and arranged for letters to be sent to each UK vet school and many European vet schools. Not one accepted the offer to speak. Below is the form letter sent to them at that time.

Cheers,

Tom

==============================================================================

MARCH 2006 LETTER TO UK AND EUROPEAN VET SCHOOLS

Dear Professor/Dr,

Processed pet-foods: Implications for pets, vets and the wider community

Please find enclosed British Veterinary Association/Pet Food Manufacturers Association Policy Brief and Dr Tom Lonsdale’s 2006 Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons manifesto and nomination statements.

Since 1991 when Dr Lonsdale and other concerned Australian veterinarians raised the alarm about the implications of junk food for pets, pet owners and the wider community there has been growing concern amongst pet owners. Unfortunately the organised veterinary profession has acted to deflect criticism and stifle debate There is much information in Dr Lonsdale’s books Raw Meaty Bones, Work Wonders and at www.rawmeatybones.com and www.ukrmb.co.uk

In recommending Dr Lonsdale for the Australian College of Veterinary Scientist’s (ACVSc) College Award Dr Richard Malik stated:

As the primary custodians of the human animal bond, it is our duty to make objective decisions about the nutrition and health of the patients under our care. Dr Lonsdale has focussed our attention on how as veterinary students, subliminal messages concerning ‘normal’ feeding practices, the value of prescription diets and the danger of feeding fresh meat or meat by-products can be influenced by companies providing free food for university teaching hospitals and positions for faculty staff. Although there may be nothing wrong with this in itself, the information, clinical data, and hypotheses promulgated by Lonsdale provide a very useful counterpoint to information provided by companies that cannot help having bias towards an ethos of commercial feeding.

Dr Bryden AM, longtime Director of the Sydney University Post Graduate Foundation in Veterinary Science, in supporting the ACVSc nomination stated:

In time more and more veterinarians recognised that Dr Lonsdale’s therapeutic and preventive measures were beneficial to the dogs and cats under their care. More and more veterinarians are integrating his ideas into their protocols and using his findings in advice to clients. He provided information which showed new insights into this condition, a remarkable achievement for a busy practitioner. His influence has extended to North America and the UK and other European countries and he continues to work on this condition . . .

Dr Malik has supported his nomination with characteristic lucidity. His recognition and assessment of the contribution made by Dr Lonsdale gives significant weight to the nomination. Through his work as a veterinary practitioner Dr Lonsdale has identified a problem, researched the aetiology and the pathogenesis, introduced therapeutic and preventive procedures, and addressed, head on, what he saw to be a moral issue for the profession. In short he has changed a paradigm and guided his profession in a more thoughtful and proper course of action.

In the latter half of 2006 Dr Lonsdale will be visiting the UK and Europe to speak with pet owners, Members of Parliament and other interested parties. On 12 July there is to be a briefing for Members of both Houses of Parliament in Portcullis House, Westminster.

Dr Lonsdale gives illustrated talks which are highly recommended for anyone interested in the health of pets, the veterinary profession and the wider community.

We at UKRMB are coordinating Dr Lonsdale’s tour. Would you like to host an evening talk, whole day seminar or other discussion at the University of ABC?

Thank you for your consideration.

Yours sincerely,

Jackie Marriott

Encs:

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Christopher Saul — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:34:32 GMT

Tom,

I would appreciate if you could answer my previous question regarding the wording of your website.

[quote user="Christopher Saul"]

I have just read this on your website

Importantly, we conducted research and campaigned in print , on radio and TV against the veterinary establishment and the junk pet-food industry. In Australia, in the early 1990s, we began to make progress.

Can you clarify for me please; you "campaigned against the veterinary establishment". Would it not be more helpful to work with the veterinary establishment to improve nutrition (If we assume for a moment that you do have a point) rather than campaigning against it?

[/quote]

Many thanks in anticipation

Chris

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Tom Lonsdale — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:11:33 GMT

Arlo,

As you previously remarked:

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Not that its really any of my business![/quote]

Nevertheless you offer an opinion:

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]did you mean to post two photographs which precisely illustrate why the UK public will not adopt the RMB diet in your lifetime[/quote]

I am under the impression that this is a veterinary forum and more specifically about my candidacy for the RCVS Council elections. I would expect pictures of small carnivores eating their natural food would have some resonance with a veterinary audience. After all the pictures are prominently displayed in my waiting room and serve as very useful educational aids.

Rabbit heads are a firm favourite with many clients. Several clients seek out the sheep, goat and pig heads.

Clients tell me that the heads remain on the lawn, become maggotty and get eaten a second time. When the maggots leave the dried up remains serve as a third course soothing snack.

Would you rather that the heads and offal be transported to the rendering plant and thence into the cans of Science Death and other such related junk?

What do you think of this picture?

It's disgraceful imagery like this 'which precisely illustrate why the UK public [may] not adopt the RMB diet in [our] lifetime'.

Yes, that's right, it's the reference manual published by the BSAVA with co-author Mars lackey, Josephine Wills, Waltham Centre for Pet Nutrition. See where she is now link

The world's gone mad with media tycoons, vet regulators, vet associations, vet schools, junk pet-food makers and now the European Food Information Council running the show.

It's time to vote to stop this madness. A vote for me may send the right message.

Cheers,

Tom

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

James Laidlaw — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 09:19:29 GMT

[quote user="Tom Lonsdale"]

Let's get back to the substantive aspects of my candidacy[/quote] Well, that's given me a good chuckle to start the day.

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Tom Lonsdale — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 09:13:48 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]Would you like to answer my and Mr Sauls previous questions Tom? You seem in one breath to blame thyroid tissue ingestion and dietary hyperthyroidism on BARF diets, and in another to be actively advertising and or selling the tissues you blame - gullet/necks etc - on your website. Clarification with or without illustrations would be nice.[/quote]

One last try.

Did you notice Tia the elderly terrier sharpening her teeth on the skinned lamb's head above? How much thyroid gland was in that?

Did you notice George the diabetic cat (who is no longer diabetic) eating his rabbit head in the diabetes thread?

What do you suppose to be the percentage of thyroid tissue in that rabbit head -- if any?

Do you suppose George only eats rabbit heads? Let me tell you that he eats rabbit carcasses, quail and chicken carcasses and lambs hearts much of the time. How much thyroid tissue do you think is in those body parts?

And so on and so forth.

However, ox gullets are a different proposition entirely. In Australia and I believe it's true in the rest of the world, the larynx, some trachea and the attached thyroid glands are stripped from the carcass. In the gullets (throat trim) we sell the thyroid portion would be somewhere between 50 and 80 percent of the item. Owners of small dogs never feed gullets. Owners of large dogs feed gullets perhaps once a fortnight.

Our goat necks, when we can get them, seldom come with larynx and thus seldom have (small) amounts of thyroid tissue. Once again goat necks never constitute the bulk of the diet.

Unfortunately the pet meat industry frequently sells 'beef mince' as does the abominable puke, vomit, BARF industry. 'Beef mince' appears to often be interchangeable with 'minced ox gullet and thyroid glands'. Hence under those circumstances hyperthyroidism may arise.

Regarding the scaremongering 'hyperthyroid' papers that you and your mate are fond of quoting, I would suggest that you treat them with the contempt they deserve. Conflating notions of minced thyroids (with lots of thyroid hormones) and minced heads and raw pet food (with NO thyroid hormones) and spreading alarm to prop up the junk pet food trade remains a most disreputable activity warranting investigation and appropriate penalties.

Please consider this line of enquiry now closed.

Let's get back to the substantive aspects of my candidacy, namely exposing and outlawing the mass junk pet-food chronic poisoning of the world's pets.

Thanks,

Tom

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Niall Taylor — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 22:40:17 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Who on earth wants that on their front lawn?[/quote]

Well, quite. The "shock" value of RMB is an important thing to the RMB bunch though, they do like to revel in this sort of thing, it makes them feel special and superior over those who are understandably hesitant about having sizeable portions of deer carcase dragged around the living room, getting everyone's shoes all bloody. You should read their accounts of the benefits of feeding roadkill - all very silly.

Niall

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Christopher Saul — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 18:08:59 GMT

Tom,

I have just read this on your website

Chris

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:58:17 GMT

[quote user="Tom Lonsdale"]Terrier overdosing on thyroid hormones, contracting Salmonella, Campylobacter and other nameless dreads, breaking teeth, suffering fatal nutritional deficiencies, penetrating bowel injuries, bowel obstruction, constipation and developing an insatiable blood lust. [/quote]

Tom, did you mean to post two photographs which precisely illustrate why the UK public will not adopt the RMB diet in your lifetime, probably mine, and probably my children's?

Who on earth wants that on their front lawn? In the world we live in, I'd be surprised if it didn't lead to a call from the RSPCA, just not on behalf of the terrier!

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

James Laidlaw — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:35:48 GMT

Would you like to answer my and Mr Sauls previous questions Tom? You seem in one breath to blame thyroid tissue ingestion and dietary hyperthyroidism on BARF diets, and in another to be actively advertising and or selling the tissues you blame - gullet/necks etc - on your website. Clarification with or without illustrations would be nice.

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Bob Russell — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:06:17 GMT

Is the posting of numerous images of pets eating carcasses supposed to impress anyone? Drivel.

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Tom Lonsdale — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:01:28 GMT

Emergency, emergency!! Call a specialist; call an expert; call the university!!

Terrier overdosing on thyroid hormones, contracting Salmonella, Campylobacter and other nameless dreads, breaking teeth, suffering fatal nutritional deficiencies, penetrating bowel injuries, bowel obstruction, constipation and developing an insatiable blood lust.

What was the owner thinking? Call the RSPCA. Launch a cruelty investigation.

Obviously the terrier failed to read the veterinary text books. Call a specialist; call an expert; call the university!!

Re: 2013 RCVS Candidate Introduction: Tom Lonsdale

Christopher Saul — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 09:22:26 GMT

[quote user="Tom Lonsdale"]

[quote]Clinical Significance: Dietary hyperthyroidism can be seen in dogs on a raw meat diet or fed fresh or dried gullets.[/quote]

Cheers,

Tom

[/quote]

You recognise this yet you do not cut out the thyroid tissue? As Niall points out a good butcher could do it. The reason it is a delicate surgery in clinical cases is because of the need to preserve blood vesses, perathyroids, recurrant laryngeal nerve etc.Do you not think it would be a sensible precaution given how easy it is?