Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:07:25 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

This sums up a lot of the pressures on vets generally, explains why self-confidence can yo-yo alarmingly. Some weeks I appreciate I am getting good at this job and others just how useless I am.

It has taken me many years to realise the job can border on impossible! Not surprising that we struggle as a profession!

[/quote] I think it would be disrespectful to the OP to hijack this thread too much but these sorts of cases do highlight another way of coping. I've found that if I've thought it through and dealt with it to the best of my ability and knowledge, then if I think I'm right then I probably am right even if others say I'm wrong unless they can come up with a rational alternative, if I don't know then I accept I just don't know, I've done the best I can and I nor anyone else can ask any more of me. If I can't sort it out I offer a referral it is not an admission of failure just that there is only so much one can do.

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

Bob Russell — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:40:31 GMT

[quote user="Mike Dale"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

To lighten the tone a bit!

I am fed up and depressed because all week I have been treating cats that are just ill! Owners tell me they are ill, bloods tell me they are ill, X-rays tell me they are ill but none of these tell me convincingly why they are ill!

Superficially this seems unimportant but it genuinely is draining trying to sort out a case load that does not want to be sorted out! I have to admit I am shattered!!!

[/quote]

Don't tell me, Bob; thin but not losing weight, sometimes picky with food and sometimes ravenous, intermittent diarrhoea, open coated, elevated blood urea /creatinine but not massively so, mildly elevated liver enzymes, euthyroid, urine SG 1.019. pale membranes but normal rbc, liver might be too large or too small on rads and owner can't afford a scan...etc. .... I don't know either - just sharing :-) Go have a great weekend and they will all have made up their minds what's wrong by monday.

[/quote]

Liver enzymes OK but otherwise describing these cases perfectly. This sums up a lot of the pressures on vets generally, explains why self-confidence can yo-yo alarmingly. Some weeks I appreciate I am getting good at this job and others just how useless I am.

It has taken me many years to realise the job can border on impossible! Not surprising that we struggle as a profession!

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

Mike Dale — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:31:39 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

To lighten the tone a bit!

Superficially this seems unimportant but it genuinely is draining trying to sort out a case load that does not want to be sorted out! I have to admit I am shattered!!!

[/quote]

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

Bob Russell — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:23:03 GMT

To lighten the tone a bit!

Superficially this seems unimportant but it genuinely is draining trying to sort out a case load that does not want to be sorted out! I have to admit I am shattered!!!

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

a.bardell — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:43:20 GMT

Hi There

Just to say that I've been there and even worse, well done for admitting there is a problem.

everyone is different in how they cope and the mechanisms they find works for them. I had to go the GP route and ended up on medication, it takes a while to find the correct one for you. I had a few blips when I thought nothing was going to work and stopped until it got too much again, thankfully had a v supportive GP. We are v bad as a profession at asking for help and also following our own advise, its v hard to admit you have negative thoughts and I do think it's still not properly recognised by a large proportion of people.

I found that until I was on the correct medication I wasn't really in a fit state to give anything else a try, now having been to CBT I have found it vv helpful but a previous attempt was less.

this may not work for you but hope it helps. Please feel free to message me privately if you want to. Check your local area with your GP as there will be a mental health crisis group that can be contacted 24/7 if the need arises, hopefully not but if you have the number in your phone its there if the worst happens.

It's very easy to get isolated after a hard day and equally as easy to reach for the bottle- do you have a partner to talk to? I actually found the dogs v helpful in a weird kind of way as they made me go out for a walk and didn't answer back!

Don't think you're alone as I think every vet out there has had these thoughts occasionally

sorry its rambling but hope its helpful

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

Anthony Todd — Tue, 12 Mar 2013 13:56:58 GMT

[quote user="Mike Dale"]So what that tells you, Anthony, - your boss had just as many insecurities as the rest of us: dependant on nicotine and has to belittle his juniors in public to boost his own ego![/quote]

No, nothing wrong with Norm's ego. He was totally self effacing, trouble was he could do everything better than most and couldn't understand why others had difficulties.....

His old boss, who got me into veterinary, made me feel much better when he told me said Norm needed to be helped too, when he first started.

We all do.

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 12 Mar 2013 13:38:05 GMT

I also would not begin to believe I can solve someone's psychological problems but in answer to your original question: my daughter suffers from anxiety and depression and went for cognitive behavioural therapy and quite honestly found it a waste of time. She benefited most from an understanding GP who gave her appropriate medication, a supportive family and friends she could talk to and help her through and having interests outside her main field of focus both creative and relaxing. You have started on this path by telling us about your problems and it is reassuring to know you are not alone, now is the time to talk to those around you who can help. I am lucky that I am an optimist, can switch off and, superficially at least, highly self confident but that is in some way a shield for someone who is actually quite shy and insecure and maybe that shield is how I developed a strategy for helping. My switch off is to always be active doing something else such as to plan and look forward to my next target - for example maybe just a ski holiday or whatever and go out cycling as often as I can. Also sometimes I have to pinch myself to tell myself when I'm worrying about my work that at least I have profession I am passionate enough about to care - there are many who do not have that.

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

Mike Dale — Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:37:55 GMT

He did, fag in mouth, usually with one hand insertion and no instruments, whilst discussing the latest rugby game, and all in no more than five minutes.

He also sorted my prolapsed uterus which I had attempted to replace with the head up-hill.......

He then asked me, often in front of the farmer, what had taken me so long.......

So what that tells you, Anthony, - your boss had just as many insecurities as the rest of us: dependant on nicotine and has to belittle his juniors in public to boost his own ego!

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:27:17 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Thanks very much, there are really nice people on this forum and i really appreciate these replies[/quote]

This kind of thread just fills me with pride in this community! Sorry if that sounds a bit, er, 'gloopy', but it is just so rewarding to think I've been able to bring people together and facilitate this kind of helpful discussion (and actually make a living at the same time!).

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

Anthony Todd — Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:48:18 GMT

Your "problem", for want of a lesser category is something I certainly went through but back in the day no one, but no one, admitted to any sort of psychological or physical inadequacy.

I had done one, that's 1 only, bovine PR when I graduated and no PDs at all!!

My first job was in arguably the most intensive dairy practice in New Zealand, if not the world; it certainly felt like it!

My boss gave instructions that, if I had a calving, I was to be given 2 hours then he was to be called to sort it, which, initially was always!

He did, fag in mouth, usually with one hand insertion and no instruments, whilst discussing the latest rugby game, and all in no more than five minutes.

He also sorted my prolapsed uterus which I had attempted to replace with the head up-hill.......

He then asked me, often in front of the farmer, what had taken me so long.......

I was sure it was because my arms were too short and I wasn't suited to the job due to complete inadequacy.

I recount these only to support you, and say you'll get better and you are certainly not alone.

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

An On MRCVS — Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:02:17 GMT

Thanks very much, there are really nice people on this forum and i really appreciate these replies

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

Mike Dale — Sun, 10 Mar 2013 18:34:09 GMT

I suspect that the "qualities" you worry about are shared by many others in the profession because what you describe are components of conscientiousness and caring; fairly important pre requisites for being a successful vet. It may be that you just need to retune the influence they are having on your life.

For example, you say you think of worst case scenarios but that indicates that maybe you are seeing a bigger picture and making yourself more aware of possible pitfalls than your colleagues. That makes you better prepared to respond positively to unexpected complications.

I disagree with Jonathan about NLP. I learned practitioner level techniques directly from Richard Bandler who was a co-"inventor" and I found the whole process enlightening and valuable. However, there are strains of NLP teaching that have become distorted from Bandler and Grinder's original concepts and it is not the only tool in the box.

Self help books are ok but one man's meat etc. It could be a matter of luck and an awful lot of reading before you find one that chimes with you.

I do agree with Jonathan when he suggests an outside interest/discipline on which you can exert your intellect and skills and possibly discover more positive value to the traits that concern you.

You reveal a lot of positive qualities about yourself. You are a veterinary surgeon and therefore undoubtedly intelligent, hardworking, capable of concentration, application, practical, compassionate and caring. You must be self-aware or you wouldn't have the worries you posted! You have a goal(s) - to be more relaxed about yourself and to be less sensitive to perceived criticism. You know in your heart what your worth is - you just need a nudge in the right direction to believe in your qualities a little more strongly.

Taking things personally and assuming the worst are behaviours commonly addressed by cognitive behaviour therapy and this could be a very rewarding, practical route for you to take. I have been practising even longer than J G W ! I have seen a number of colleagues, employees and friends benefit enormously from CBT. I'd start there. I think any behaviour assessment or modification is best done with the help of a living breathing human to help you. You can't behave with a bunch of books or an audiotape; and the very act of seeking counsel will take you to a new place and new people outside of a veterinary environment. You will learn to believe in yourself.

"Man who says thing cannot be done should not interrupt man who is doing it"

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

bob lehner — Sun, 10 Mar 2013 18:17:32 GMT

I don't think I can begin to solve your problems - but :

1. You should be applauded for recgnising there is a problem - and for bravely bringing it before a wider audience.

2. I'm absolutely sure that the personality traits you describe are actually not uncommon within our profession. I recogise much of what you describe in myself and a number of others with whom I have worked over the years. I think we often try too hard - we worry about failing or looking stupid or inadequate in front of work colleagues, let alone our clients. We want to do the best for our patients, despite being hampered by lack of resources/facilities/finances and to be honest our own abilities. Complaints, criticisms and failures maay have a much greater and longer lasting effect than praise or successes. Tiredeness is a factor and if you are a boss you probably worry about running the business as well. We don't switch off away from work and suffer from lack of sleep, which clearly compounds the problem. Being 'on call' is an obvious contributing factor . The 'pessimistic' type personality suffers all the above, but too a far worse degree. We find it difficult to seek help from outside sources.

3. Clinical depression, to a greater or lesser degree , must be considered and fortunately is no longer looked on as a 'failing', but a proper medical condition. Have a look at the Royal College of Psychiatrists website for a good review of this very common disorder.

4. If I were you I would try the Veterinary Helplines advertised in the Vet Rec etc. for advice - although I have no personal experience of them I think you might find them very useful. You will definitely learn that your problems are not unique ! Of course conventional advice from your GP should also be considered.

5. Don't 'do nothing' - you have many working years ahead of you and these things can build up and ruin your life - professional and personal if allowed to get out of hand.

Good luck....

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

An On MRCVS — Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:53:30 GMT

Thank you very much JGW, I've just had a look on Amazon, an audio-book might be a good idea. I have been a bit dismissive of "self help" books but I you shouldn't dismiss it without trying it.

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

An On MRCVS — Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:53:29 GMT

Thank you very much JGW, I've just had a look on Amazon, an audio-book might be a good idea. I have been a bit dismissive of "self help" books but I you shouldn't dismiss it without trying it.

Re: Deep fears are borne of dark imaginings

J G Wray — Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:31:59 GMT

Right, this comes from someone who has been a vet three times as long as you. If you want something practical, something which takes "stuff" out of your head and helps you become productive in a less stressful way then you should consider getting good at something non veterinary and applying it

What I'm going to suggest is not easy, for two reasons, firstly it is, err non-veterinary and second it is long winded in its delivery. The point of the long preamble to the "good stuff" only becomes apparent when you've been through it.

Some reading - or you could listen on an audiobook

The 7 Habits of highly effective people by Stephen Covey

Eat that Frog by Brian Tracy - "An old saying is that "If the first thing you do each morning is to eat a live frog, you can go through the day with the satisfaction of knowing that it is probably the worst thing that is going to happen to you all day long!" Your "FROG" is the one thing you are most likely to keep putting off if you don't do something about it now! It is also the one task that can have the greatest positive impact on your life if you do it now."

Getting things done David Allen

There are others. These all come from the readily detested genre of self-help books. They are American and take time to build to the point. This is deliberate, but reads like something from the Moon where you are used to scientific papers. You need to get through it and that has its own reward.

You are, just like all vets, equipped with a brain the size of a planet and therefore capable of distilling stuff from these and it may lead you on to trying other stuff. I find NLP indigestible pseudoscience and Seth Godin quite amusing, but that's me. NLP creeps in with behavioural therapy

There is nothing wrong with doing both.

There is nothing wrong with talking to your GP.

There's also the VSHSP through RCVS.

So, in summary, my advice - help yourself by finding a practical coping mechanism, see a medical professional to get some scientific help and/or use a support program designed for vets.

JGW