Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

Ian Ross — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:59:36 GMT

Hi,

I did my module A with Liverpool last August to December, and am halfway throught module B at the moment.

I have to say that I've found them really good. Module A was fairly straightforward, and I only needed about 6 hours a week on average (there were a few larger reports that took a little longer to write) but I passed without a problem.

Module B is definitely more time consuming. There are 4 case reports (each one 1500 words) in a 16 week course, These are assesed, and then there are 3 journal clubs (one you have to present) which run in the evening (7.30-8.30 or 8.30-9.30pm).

They are very structured.Reading lists online, and links to the articles.

I have a friend doing module A via Liverpool. Enrolled 2 years ago on the essay route......still doing it.

If you like structure and can commit a little time every week, I'd happily recommend Liverpool.

Ian

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

Claire Fisher — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:18:22 GMT

[quote user="Alice Courtney"]

Sorry joining in late on this one! I am enrolled with RVC, and one thing I would mention is to consider how easy re-sits or re-submissions are. At present the RVC only allow re-submission (of C-modules at least) once a year, so if you do fail something, you have to wait a whole year before you get to resubmit. If you're keen to get on with things and are happy to have a more intense, structured but more guided route then my impression (but not from experience) is that Liverpool offers this more than the RVC does. I haven't used the RVC support, and as sa result have found myself mostly doing everything on my own, whereas Liverpool seem to spoon-feed you more (not meant in a derogatory way!) and offer good support. I would check the regs about re-submission and exams for Liverpool. I personally revised really hard for the RVC C module exams and found them quite challenging & stressful, and had I failed then it would be another year before I could re-do them. Considering how stressed I was about them, I think if I'd failed I would have found it really hard to motivate myself for a whole year more - perhaps that reflects me though! The same applies for case reports - if you fail a case report with the RVC, you have to wait a year before re-submitting it/a replacement.

I'll be honest, I've been doing my C modules with the RVC and have found them difficult. I know someone who's doing the Liverpool modules and they seem much less stressed about each case report they write, and I'm pretty sure they didn't take anywhere near as long as I did perfecting each one, researching it, writing it, getting it down to word count, referencing it, etc etc! Perhaps the RVC style doesn't suit a perfectionist because it gives you too much time to research/worry/write too much/delete words to get within word count - whereas Liverpool makes you just get on with it because you have set deadlines!

Just my tuppence worth, hope that helps

[/quote]

I haven't had to resubmit anything (yet!) but I believe case reports can be redone as soon as you get the opportunity, not sure about the final test or what happens if you fail journal club.

Most times you only have 3 or 4 weeks between finishing one case report and handing in the next so not much time to obsess over them! Especially as there will be other discussions, journal clubs ect to do in between.

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

Alice Courtney — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:53:39 GMT

Just my tuppence worth, hope that helps

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

Frances Barr — Tue, 26 Feb 2013 17:40:47 GMT

Hi Sarah

There are no holders of the BSAVA cert yet as they have only been going for 14months - but around 170 individuals are currently enrolled and actively studying. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to message me. Or if you'll be at BSAVA congress, come and have a chat at the Education stand. No hard sell I promise - not my style :-)

Frances

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

Sarah Bolt — Sat, 23 Feb 2013 00:30:13 GMT

Hi,

On a similar theme, I just wondered if anyone has any experience of the bsava certificates? From what I have read it is essentially equivalent to the certAvp but with differences in teaching methods/assignments etc. in that the bsava certificate is more taught while the certAvp is more self-directed...have I got this about right?

I also wondered whether employers rate them equal? Has anyone has done the bsava certificate - most people seem to go down the CertAvp route so haven't met anyone with first hand experience of the bsava certificate yet (presumably as bsava is more expensive than certAvp?)!

Thanks :-)

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

Claire Fisher — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:20:14 GMT

I've been enrolled with Liverpool since I started my CertAVP - have completed A, B and 1 C module so far (in small animal medicine).

They are very structured , I try to avoid being away during the modules as I find keeping up hard at the best of times.The A module had assignments most weeks, some were quite quick and easy some were 1000 - 1500 word essays. The B and C modules involved 4 case reports, presenting and discussing papers at Journal Club and a final test.

There are lectures provided by Liverpool staff each week and suggested papers to read as well. You can discuss things with other candidates on the discussion board and I've had good support from the module coordinators as well.

You could do the 3 C modules in a year but I did B and C 1 back to back and found I was struggling by the end so I've taken a break and start the next one in May.

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

mariette asselbergs — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:34:53 GMT

Thanks Neil,

I have done some (very good) CPD for them and I know they have a very good name. However my locuming experience on a few occasions was much less positive, with minimal induction, complicated set up in guest practices with different medicines and procedures, and sometimes both me and the nurse were first time locums in the clinic. That put me off a bit, but I have been thinking about the cutting edge programme, just can't afford 10 weeks off without earning at the moment. But thanks for this, I will look into their training and locuming options again.

Mariette

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

Kate Dawes — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:34:52 GMT

I have done module A and have almost finished B (small animal practice) with the RVC and have generally found them good.

I paid a bit extra for the online support which has been useful - this includes feedback on essays (some v helpful, others v frustrating!), an online discussion forum which is pretty useless as it is hardly used, and RVC library access which I used a lot for references.

The online support for the B module included example essays and some suggested reading, and feedback on case reports.

I have generally enjoyed it and have liked the fact that there are no deadlines, although it has taken me a few years to get to the point where I am about to start the clinical modules (time off having a baby didn't help!).

I know they have changed the structure a bit since I started, some of the early essays for the A module did seem v tedious at the time, but I have learnt a lot from doing it and it have enjoyed studying again.

I'm just looking into doing the small animal medicine clinical modules and am considering changing to Liverpool as it looks like it is a bit more structured which I think I would find more helpful. Would be interested to hear from anyone that has done clinical modules there.

Kate

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:28:38 GMT

Dear Mariette

Have you thought about Vets Now?

My experience is fabulous. I've been working for them part time for 7 years, initially combining this with AHVLA and then for the last 18 months as a locum. You don't have to work the full 6 nights in 14, I'm contracted to work 30 nights a year equivalent which is managable.

They offer

1) On site training with 4 sessions a year on topics such as analgesis, acid base balance etc

2) Vets Now Congress in November (anyone can go to this)

3) Moodle which is an online discussion forum.

At present I'm involved with the Sharper Edge program which is a new course. (A step up from Cutting Edge) They've taken 20 vets from across the company and we have to review papers and present to our piers for 2 days - 4 times a year - very interesting and parallels the Cert AVP

These link very well with locum work and I'm often asked to see the emergency case that comes through the door in daytime practice.

Neil

PS I came from a dairy farm and swore I'd be a large animal vet on qualifying, and sympathise with Michael's view, but life is somehow more interesting on the 'dark side' and fits in better with a work-life balance.

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

mariette asselbergs — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:52:32 GMT

Thanks very much David and Catharine,

I had only had some info about Liverpool from colleagues and was struggling to get an idea of financial implications and assessments. Thanks very much for taking the trouble to give this clear info. I am sure it will be of use for others with potential ambitions to do this Cert. I'll check out the websites!

Mariette

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

mariette asselbergs — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:46:01 GMT

Hi Michael,

I would love to stay in mixed or farm animals but there is simply no work at the moment. Farmers just shoot the sheep, competing practices go around our clients selling cheap medicines without visits, and farmers delay endlessly paying their bills, or to bust with thousands of debt. It is a ridiculous situation but I still hope to do some weekends or locums.

Mariette

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

CatherineThomas — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:13:48 GMT

I'm currently doing the A and B modules with Edinburgh.

I think the only time limit is that the whole certificate must be done within 10 years.

There is an online community where they give you a lot of information and recommended reading. Then there is a discussion forum where the subjects can be discussed. But I don't think there's anything saying you have to use this or how much.

Fot the A module there are 5 sections. 4 of them have a list of essays (between 4 and 17 per section) and the 5th is emergency medicine which is assessed by an on-line multiple choice exam. You have to choose 5 essays to write, covering at least one from each section. I prefer this to their previous version where there were 10 essays and you had to write all 10.

I don't think they have specific emergency care modules but some of the small animal medicine modules include critical care.

There's information about it here:

http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/vet/studying/cpd/certavp-assessment

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

David Mills — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:04:13 GMT

There are a number of providers and your choice is limited by what exactly you want to do, and, secondarily, how you work best. The three unis that offer the vast majority are RVC, Liverpool and Edinburgh.

Liverpool modules are structured, running over 20 weeks, and requiring more continuous assessment and no essays (a few case reports only). However they are less flexible in that you need to be around for the 20 weeks. Some of them are integrated and offer courses as part of the fee, although can choose assessment only.

RVC have by far and away the widest choice of modules, including the 3 ECC modules you may be interested in. Visit their cpd website and browse - the docs on there have the assessment criteria spelt out. They are flexible, with deadlines for essays/case books once a year and you can study when you want. If you sign up for learning support you can get feedback on essays before submission and access to a vast array of journals, which is great. I personally favour this style.

Glasgow have started to offer the ECC modules too, at a lower price, but details are sketchy on the website and I've no experience of these.

EDinburgh I have no experience of except one C module which was a terminal exam only with no casework. From their website it appears that they are more in the RVC mould.

RVC and Liverpool and Edinburgh offer the compulsory A module, and most the B module depending on your preference.

Current structure is A + B + 3C + either another C or another B. If you want a designated cert then there's also a synoptic oral exam.

Prices are similar across the board really, i.e. for a full cert you're looking at around £3000 give or take, £3700 for a designated cert. Modules have to be completed within 2y once started.

Re: Cert AVP any recommendations for providers of modules?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:18:04 GMT

That's a shame - another vet leaving farm animals and returning to smallies :(