Pony burgers

Re: Pony burgers

Utlendigur — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 13:16:32 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]I'm told that in rural Wales for example there are still numerous ponies running round the hills with no passports.[/quote]

The Carneddau ponies (plus some others) have been granted a specific exemption - ie don't need passports unless they are moved off the hill - mainly because of concerns that the costs (and practicalities - they are feral!) would lead to them becoming extinct, which would then have an impact on the ecology of the area (not to mention their history and cultural value).

http://wales.gov.uk/topics/environmentcountryside/ahw/horses/equineidsemiferalponies/?lang=en

Re: Pony burgers

Bob Russell — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 13:08:36 GMT

Having done a lot of work for the local council then the MHS in the dim and distant past, have things changed so there is little or no veterinary supervision of slaughterhouses and meat processing plants?

Re: Pony burgers

bob lehner — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:34:52 GMT

[quote user="Richard Stephenson"] It is of course not satisfactory that burgers contain horse meat or BUTE - but this is a labelling issue NOT a health one.[/quote]

Surely the fact that horses that have had bute have ended up in the food chain indicates that the whole horse passport/medication issue is very flakey, poorly regulated and in some areas too complicated (try reading the VMD Guidelines on medicating horses - they take a bit of understanding and I do wonder if every VS in the land who treats horses is intimately acquainted with, and totally up to speed on them).

Some horse owners treat bute with a remarkable degree of casualness. I'm sure I'm not alone in knowing of cases where owners have accumulated quantities of the drug and then used it off their own bat to treat their own horses - or given the odd dose to a friend to treat their horse, without any veterinary involvement (I heard only yesterday, through the grapevine, of a horse at a livery yard which had been given bute for a 'foot abscess' - via a friend - no vet involved - did that horse have a passport - was it signed out of the food chain - who knows ????).

It also strikes me as odd that apart from substances on the list of 'Essential Substances', other products prescribed under the Cascade don't have to be entered on the passport - if that animal goes to the abattoir, even presuming it has its passport checked there - unless the owner advises on whatever medication it has had and the appropriate withdrawal period, the abattoir will be none the wiser.

I wonder how many owners have been successfully prosecuted to date for not having a Passport for their horse -I'm told that in rural Wales for example there are still numerous ponies running round the hills with no passports.

Re: Pony burgers

Wren — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:07:25 GMT

Surely Trichinella is more of a public health risk than bute? I thought horsemeat was supposed to be tested for it?

With ref to the allergy my point was that most people with horse allergies are allergic to the hair/skin dander so I wasn't sure that they'd also be allergic to ingesting muscle?

Re: Pony burgers

Richard Stephenson — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 08:23:31 GMT

In a worst case scenario assuming a horse had a therapeutic dose of EPZ at around 6 - 12 hours before slaughter and that a 40kg child ate two 100g burgers made from 100% from THAT horse meat the dose administered to the child would be less than 0.000001g/kg. In reality MUCH less as burgers are not 100% meat and it is unlikely that horses are given BUTE on the day of slaughter.

The blood dyscrasias that were noted when BUTE was used widely in human medicine (although not specifically dose related) occurred in people on between 2 - 8 mg/kg for several months. The complication rate was around 1 in 30,000 people on BUTE (ironically safer than some of the 'modern' NSAIDS).

In short from a scientific view point there is NO real danger from eating horse meat EVEN if it has BIUTE in it. It is of course not satisfactory that burgers contain horse meat or BUTE - but this is a labelling issue NOT a health one.

Yours,

Richard Stephenson.

Re: Pony burgers

Glenn Hodgson — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:14:42 GMT

600 burgers... gout would be a worry!

I know someone that becomes severely ill after eatinf red meat or oily fish. Even a single marshmallow with the associated pork gelatine results in 3 days out of action. Not anaphalaxis but quite an allergy. I suspect it wpuld be possible for an individual to have the same issue with horse only.

Re: Pony burgers

Wren — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 16:19:02 GMT

Somebody was interviewed on the radio yesterday complaining that they were allergic to horses therefore this debacle puts them at risk of anaphylaxis. Surely not? They were cutting out all processed meats from now on to be sure, which isn't a bad idea anyway, but I'm not convinced by their logic.

Re: Pony burgers

Utlendigur — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:37:23 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]But how many ponyburgers do you have to eat to get this complication.....??[/quote]

I think the figure quoted on the news was 500 - 600 (a day) - methinks that would cause more problems that a dose of bute

Re: Pony burgers

mariette asselbergs — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:32:22 GMT

"I heard on the news that it is safe to eat pony burgers with bute in them.... This is concerning".

Why? Do a risk assessment. Bute was used in humans for many years. There is a tiny risk that somebody whould get bone marrow depression from it. But how many ponyburgers do you have to eat to get this complication.....??

Mariette