Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Bob Russell — Mon, 11 Feb 2013 14:16:58 GMT

With rare exceptions, the 'good' clients have already chipped their dogs.

We have been doing 'free' flea and worming checks for the unconverted and very often months later they ask for a further free check because we have not seen them for over a year and flea numbers have had a chance to climb back up after months of restarting on cr*p products.

Marketing opportunity? I suspect the reduction in paying microchip clients will greatly outweigh any benefit!

Perhaps more of us will push the temperature chip!

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 11 Feb 2013 12:43:04 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]But footfall is not in itself a gift of any sort[/quote]

Quite so without selection, conversion and retention. If you know the costs to your business then a case can be thought through. Your opinion of this is once again noted.

[/quote]

We do most of the neutering for cats issued with neutering vouchers by our local Cats Protection Branch. Most of the cats have never been to a vet before, we use the oppurtunity to discuss vaccinations, microchips and flea/worm treatment, the number of people who take up any of these is vanishingly small. What it does mean is that when they have problems in the future they contact us, but rarely have any money to afford treatment, and often claim not to be able to afford a consultation.

I imagine that a lot of the non-registered dog owners who will come to us for free microchips will be in a similar position.

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Virginia Campbell — Sun, 10 Feb 2013 17:21:23 GMT

By the way, for those concerned about the quality of chips supplied by the Dogs Trust - the ones we got all last year were good quality ones that fitted the round ended gun-style chippers. They were fine to implant and I didn't come across any duds all year.

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Cat Henstridge — Sat, 09 Feb 2013 22:20:17 GMT

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/dogs-condemn-microchipping-as-orwellian-2013020758905

Here's another opinion on the matter!

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

J G Wray — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 20:28:46 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]It wish you had finished this sentence as I admit I have no idea what you are insinuating.[/quote]

If your marketing works then the converted will bring more work in. You can even reward and encourage through referral.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]There is currently no issue with people knowing that vet practices exist, that we offer a good service, and that the service costs money. All research indicates that. Good clients are likely to visit their current vet for their free chip and, although they will no doubt be grateful, their opinion and spending at the practice will not change (apart from a free chip, obviously). Bad pet owners will visit their nearest vet, get their free chip and walk away. I am not sure why you think getting a free chip would have any impact on the public's image of their local vet?[/quote]

I don't have this view of the public in the black and white of "Good clients" and "Bad pet owners".

JGW

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 18:46:13 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]No, pet owner visits practice for a free chip and is exposed to the practice offering. If pet owner walks out of practice having had a thoroughly professional and comforting experience and is clear about what the practice offers and how much it costs then speaks to others...[/quote]

It wish you had finished this sentence as I admit I have no idea what you are insinuating.

There is currently no issue with people knowing that vet practices exist, that we offer a good service, and that the service costs money. All research indicates that. Good clients are likely to visit their current vet for their free chip and, although they will no doubt be grateful, their opinion and spending at the practice will not change (apart from a free chip, obviously). Bad pet owners will visit their nearest vet, get their free chip and walk away. I am not sure why you think getting a free chip would have any impact on the public's image of their local vet?

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:28:39 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]What about issues of client confidentiality when reporting a pet that has been brought in for treatment, unchipped?[/quote]

Well that one, at least, is easy to answer. If you are sure that an overwhelming public interest or animal welfare issue demands that you breach confidentiality, have the courage of your convictions and report the facts to the police. If not, mind your own business.

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

J G Wray — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:13:45 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Pet owner told to visit their practice for a free chip. Arrives in practice. Watches vet insert chip free of charge. Walks out of practice. Exactly how does this do anything other than perpetuate the idea that vet care is free?[/quote]

No, pet owner visits practice for a free chip and is exposed to the practice offering. If pet owner walks out of practice having had a thoroughly professional and comforting experience and is clear about what the practice offers and how much it costs then speaks to others...If pet owner has had grudging confused rushed experience then...

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]And how does a free chip help improve anyone's sense of responsibility towards their animal?[/quote]

Who said it does?

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Free chip to anyone on benefits? Surely not that difficult to check?[/quote]

Free dog licence to anyone on benefits? Surely not that difficult to check? Same argument, licences abandoned.

JGW

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Bob Russell — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:28:23 GMT

The free option is available to anyone willing to drive to the 'local' Dogs Trust, RSPCA etc, wait in a long queue, for someone with variable experience to place a chip of variable quality into their much loved pet. What backup will there be if the chip stops functioning or migrates?

We use the temperature chip and on the very few occasions there have been such issues Animalcare have replaced the chip without question. Closest thing to a lifetime guarantee.

I also consider compulsory microchipping a good thing and this may be a good start but owners still need to take responsibility for their pets. The millions this could cost the Dogs Trust should be spent better IMO.

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:16:59 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I also think that anything which perpetuates the idea that veterinary care is free is a bad thing. Bad for the business of veterinary practice; bad for animal welfare.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. This is not what free microchipping does.

[/quote]

Pet owner told to visit their practice for a free chip. Arrives in practice. Watches vet insert chip free of charge. Walks out of practice. Exactly how does this do anything other than perpetuate the idea that vet care is free?

And how does a free chip help improve anyone's sense of responsibility towards their animal?

I am all for chipping. I think it is a great idea. But I think people should pay for it. At least pay something.

[quote user="J G Wray"] Means testing to access funding for provision of care for pets is cumbersome and costly, just ask the PDSA.[/quote]

Free chip to anyone on benefits? Surely not that difficult to check?

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

J G Wray — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:08:15 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]How do you know? Must say, I'd be surprised, because it is such a rubbish marketing opportunity.[/quote]

Opinion noted

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]But footfall is not in itself a gift of any sort[/quote]

Quite so without selection, conversion and retention. If you know the costs to your business then a case can be thought through. Your opinion of this is once again noted.

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]The experience from one practice in NI seems to indicate that for them, the effect was minimal:[/quote]

The report from sample size of 1 is noted.

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I'm uncomfortable with the idea of the Government effectively dictating how a practice should market itself, especially when the indications are that it will be a singularly ineffective way of doing so. [/quote]

This is a neat development based on opinion. Who says the Government is dictating marketing? That word "dictating" won't appear anywhere. This will be an "offering."

Couldn't agree more. This is not what free microchipping does.[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Personally, I think the Government should be telling people that they will need to PAY to have their dog chipped. And if they really can't find £20 (or whatever is being charged) over the next 3 years, then assistance be provided, via the charities, for those that genuinely cannot afford it.[/quote]

Means testing to access funding for provision of care for pets is cumbersome and costly, just ask the PDSA. The costs for determining funding for chpping, which isn't provision of care may fall outside charitable aims anyway.

The free microchipping is not being set up for the benefit of veterinary practices. It has been determined as the best way to get the biggest takeup, including amongst those whocan't/don't want to spend £20 on a chip. The agument against £20 micochipping is the same as for paying for dog licences.

JGW

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Wren — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 12:25:08 GMT

Don't forget that there is a precedent for this - all horses have had to be microchipped (and passported) by 6 months of age since 2009, and all TBs since 1999.

I'm afraid I take a charitable view where I scan a horse which should have a chip but doesn't. I assume the chip is non-functioning, migrating or fell out shortly after implantation. I don't go running to ring and report the owners, but I do (after scanning again) make sure that they get the horse chipped.

On a money front a call out fee, passport and microchip for a horse can be around the £100 mark and we generally have good compliance. I suppose horse-owners have more incentive though as they cannot sell or compete the horse without. Also VOSA and TS stop lorrie and trailers on major roads to do ID/passport/chip checks and people are keen to avoid being caught.

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 10:35:45 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]Free microchipping, or at least reduced cost microchipping is a marketing opportunity. This is how the Government and the charities will play this.[/quote]

How do you know? Must say, I'd be surprised, because it is such a rubbish marketing opportunity.

[quote user="J G Wray"]"The value of this gift being footfall, to be compared with the cost we have in our businesses of marketing to acquire the same clients."[/quote]

But footfall is not in itself a gift of any sort. If I said I could drive a thousand middle income earners into the showroom of Jack Barclay, it would result in a net loss to that company.

By the same token, I fear that the conversion rate in turning ' people-who-have-not-yet-chipped' into 'bonded-clients-that-visit-regularly' will be piteously small. Will it cover the cost of you and your staff's time? Will it replace the lost revenue, however small that might be?

The experience from one practice in NI seems to indicate that for them, the effect was minimal:

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]I think it has only resulted in a very small amount of new business, but hasn't been too much of a time-suck for us as we book them in during quiet times for nurse consults.[/quote]

I guess some will find it more of a time-suck (i.e. expensive; loss-making), and some less.

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of the Government effectively dictating how a practice should market itself, especially when the indications are that it will be a singularly ineffective way of doing so.

I also think that anything which perpetuates the idea that veterinary care is free is a bad thing. Bad for the business of veterinary practice; bad for animal welfare.

Personally, I think the Government should be telling people that they will need to PAY to have their dog chipped. And if they really can't find £20 (or whatever is being charged) over the next 3 years, then assistance be provided, via the charities, for those that genuinely cannot afford it.

[quote user="J G Wray"]If we fight this then we will reinforce any perception there might be of being self-serving. [/quote]

This, sadly, I agree with you about.

[quote user="J G Wray"]Being smart is seeing what it can do for you.[/quote]

And this too.

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:16:57 GMT

A summary of (hopefully) all the points raised so far:

What is going to happen to the companies that currently sell chips?
Will vets be able to charge for implanting?
If vets are not able to charge for implanting, why should they give their time for free?
Does offering free chips actually do anything to promote responsible pet ownership, as the Government hopes? After all, if you can't afford a £15 chip, should you own a dog?
What about the quality of the free chips?
What proof of ownership will be required at the time of microchipping?
How will it be policed?
What problem will microchipping solve (will it have any impact on dangerous dogs, for example)?
What about cats? How will it reflect on the practice when an owner comes in with a cat and a dog, and only the dog is free?
What about issues of client confidentiality when reporting a pet that has been brought in for treatment, unchipped?

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

J G Wray — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 07:20:30 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]I really fail to see where they are going with this.[/quote]

Well, ask the BVA and BSAVA. There has to be a starting point for increasing control and identifying animals looks sensible to me. Absence of blinkers and parochialism will help all.

JGW

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Rob Loxley — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 23:36:16 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]I really fail to see where they are going with this[/quote]

One definite improvement in the proposals, IMHO, is extending legislation to cover dogs on private land - e.g. not to bite the poor postie in your garden (a local postie nearly lost an arm to some rotties not that long ago)

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Julie Innes — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 22:35:14 GMT

I really fail to see where they are going with this. I thought they had mentioned it to do with dangerous dogs, but I can't for the life of me see how having a chip will either a) stop dogs biting people b) stop idiots not training/ socialising/ controlling them properly or even c) allow the dog that bites to be positively ID'd- are people going to carry around scanners and scan dogs as they attack????

Given the very poor police implementation of the powers they already do have under the DDA, how on earth will they police this? I had a situation a few years ago where three dogs (an akita, a rottie and a staffx) were running free, coming into my garden and terrorising my rabbits (luckily my kids weren't in the garden any of the times they appeared) They were damaging my property, stopping my kids being able to use the garden and I discovered had terrorised people walking up the street with their dogs. Being sufficiently concerned about 3 dogs like this, running as a pack, under no-ones control, I contacted the police on a few occasions. First, they said they would send the dog warden. Who came...2 days later!! Then the woman I spoke to at the police station sugested I "put something down for them"!!! Er, no- I'd rather not poison them- I have small children, dogs of my own and a wood full of wildlife! Is that even legal, I asked- she didn't know . Next they told me that unless I could find out whose dogs they were, they could do nothing. Presumably, then, if someone breaks into my house, the onus is on me to find out who it was before the police can help..... They also suggested I grab the dog by the collar and try to read its tag, if any!! Yeah, a 55kg akita in the middle of trying to savage a rabbit won't at all mind a stranger grabbing it by the collar and sticking her face up close to try to read the tag.

Shocking, all round. I have little faith in the police's ability or willingness to implement this in any way, especially with relation to dangerous dogs. I actually printed off a copy of the DDA to show the police what powers it DID actually give them- seemed to be news to them. The whole thing seems pretty pointless to me

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 20:27:07 GMT

Vets cannot be expected to be part of the policing issue. Two issues stop us doing so - client confidentiality and the fact that unchipped sick dogs may not be brought to us if the owners think it will lead to being reported for having no chip!

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Clive Ansell — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 19:40:02 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

Can somone explain to me what problem we are trying to solve here. I someone has an unchipped dog, how do we know/prove who the irresponsible owner is ro be prosecuted?

[/quote]

We cannot possibly know, but it is not our problem. Enforcement is a job for the police but given the savage cuts in public sector and police spending, I guess they will not be sending a whole army of police officers out armed with scanners to check if dogs are micro chipped. Where I live it is almost impossible to get the police to attend a house burglary.

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

J G Wray — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 19:21:45 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

If we chip free it will be assumed that the government is paying us to do so. If we don't we will be accused of not caring about animal welfare. After the prescriptions disgrace (free of charge) I made the decision that I would not be doing anything for nothing again even if it meant facing flack or even a brush with the law.

I am not willing to subsidise a government initiative so I will be charging for my time at a realistic rate.

[/quote]

Ah paranoia, principles and defiance. A heady mix.

JGW

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Mark Rowland — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 18:48:00 GMT

Hmm so client comes in with a dog and a cat. ? Free for dog full price for cat. Or possibly even higher for the cat as the chip making companies see revenue fall so put up the price. Lets hope the cpl follow suit. They are rich enough after all.

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 18:07:38 GMT

I will be happy to implant free chips if they're provided but I will charge for my time and the privilege of using my facilites for doing it. I will however advice upgrading to a better quality or BioThermo chip.

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Rob Loxley — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 16:29:37 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]Can somone explain to me what problem we are trying to solve here[/quote]

I think compulsory microchipping is not a bad idea and will help with some problems we see, but will not address the problems the politicians might like it to (esp antisocial/dangerous dogs), and as above - where is the money for policing/enforcement??

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Rebecca Marchewka — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 16:22:27 GMT

Isn't it already the law that a dog has to wear a collar and tag? I appreciate a collar can be lost but it is easy to see if the law is being broken. Does any one enforce the law that already stands and how is the new one really going to be any different.

Re: Free microchips supplied by the government? Discuss!

Bob Russell — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 16:06:59 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

Can somone explain to me what problem we are trying to solve here. I someone has an unchipped dog, how do we know/prove who the irresponsible owner is ro be prosecuted?

[/quote]

I get the feeling this is another, not very well thought out proposal by the government. When I hear stories like this I check the other news carefully because it is likely they are covering up a bad news story and want to distract peoples attention.

I am not willing to subsidise a government initiative so I will be charging for my time at a realistic rate.