School work experience

Re: School work experience

Rebecca MacMillan — Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:59:39 GMT

I've had varying qualities of work experience/college students. There are some that turn up with notebook in hand, and ask valid questions in between consults which I actively encourage. I give them all the same talk at the start of the week - make sure you ask me anything you've seen and don't understand, there are no silly questions etc etc but I always tell them to keep quiet during consults!! I don't mind them talking to the clients briefly, but I don't like it when they get over familiar. I also try and include them in some of the things I do, talking them through certain ops and explaining the history on some of the cases.

Unfortunately I've had several bad ones, I'm not quite sure how they ended up coming to us in the first place though, they were that disinterested/awful. I had one college student stand over my shoulder whilst I was typing my notes and correct my spellings which was really annoying (I tend to type fast and some of the letters get jumbled!), a couple of school boys who'd get their phones out during consults and lean against the wall texting (the nurse in charge of school work exp students sacked these two off half way through the week) and I also had a boy who possibly had some sort of learning difficulties who had no sense of personal space. He stood so close when I was doing a minor op once that I could hear him breathing in my ear and he insisted on crouching down and putting his nose against a sedated dogs nose (who was on the table for xray) - twice! This was despite me telling him the dog could still potentially react and bite. I also had to tell him repeatedly to get out of the way when we had an aggressive dog to deal with.

I try and give people a chance because I know how scary it was when I was 14, not knowing exactly what was expected of me and feeling like I was getting in everyones way. It only clicked with me at the end my first week on placement that I should actively ask for tasks to do rather than just waiting to be told and lurking around! After I realised that, I was much more confident and was even asked back by one placement when they were short on vet nurses to help them out for a week

Re: School work experience

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 09 Feb 2013 02:24:04 GMT

It's Friday night.

Take your pick.

www.youtube.com/watch

Re: School work experience

Julie Innes — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 19:09:55 GMT

Ah yes- youth! I remember that!

I was a goth/ rock chick, and loved my loud and probably offensive music. But when I saw practice as a schoolkid/ student I dressed conservatively and left my walkman (remember them?!) at home. Even at 14/15 I understood there was a time and place for stage diving and wearing enough black eye make-up to frighten old ladies.

My nurses don't need to be told to turn their pones off/ to silent, although I have had to have words with some student nurses about facebooking on the computer at reception when they should be working, and I make no apologies for that. They have free access to 2 computers while on their lunch break, and can phone then to their hearts' content.

Re: School work experience

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 17:28:16 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]And yes, I do remember all the words. It was a song about political change, not standards of common courtesy.[/quote] Its as much about moving with the times and accepting change: "Come mothers and fathers throughout the land, and don't criticise what you can't understand, your sons and your daughters are beyond your command, the old road is rapidly agin', so get out soon if you can't lend your hand, for the times they are a -changin'".

[/quote]

Yep. A song of its times, ironically! And the times they have a'changed!

I see no reason to abandon principles of common courtesy and consideration for others.

The pump don't work 'cos the vandals took the handle..........

Re: School work experience

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:49:54 GMT

Re: School work experience

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:14:48 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"] I am not going to tolerate people talking on the phone while they should be working or having a consultation with me.[/quote]

Nor I.

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Remember when you had long hair and played loud rock music (well perhaps you didn't) and 'old' people told you to get it cut/turn it down what you thought of them? Well perhaps we were a bit more polite but that is how young people view us when we tell them to stop using their phones. My nurses will just go and do it secretly, they are too good to sack and the replacements will be the same. Remember the words of Bob Dylan's; 'The Times They are A-Changing'?

[/quote]

They have to learn that there's a time and a place for everything and that you should consider other people. which was the lesson I learned about loud music. I've never had this problem with my nurses, they have been well brought up and would not dream of misusing their phones.

Long hair? Yep, been there, done that. I may be able to dig out an old photo if you like.

And yes, I do remember all the words. It was a song about political change, not standards of common courtesy.

"Come senators, congressmen, heed ye the call,

Don't stand in the doorway, don't block up the hall....."

That's one couplet I frequently sing at students and others who seem to loiter in doorways and passages. It generally gets me blank looks.

Re: School work experience

Dagmar Steele — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:53:58 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] Remember when you had long hair and played loud rock music (well perhaps you didn't) and 'old' people told you to get it cut/turn it down what you thought of them? Well perhaps we were a bit more polite but that is how young people view us when we tell them to stop using their phones. My nurses will just go and do it secretly, they are too good to sack and the replacements will be the same. Remember the words of Bob Dylan's; 'The Times They are A-Changing'?

[/quote] Martin, it isn't the politeness that changes. It's just the means by which people are annoyed. In the old times it may have been loud music and now it's mobile phones. What hasn't changed is that this behavior is rude and ruthless. Our parents were annoyed by loud music and I am not going to tolerate people talking on the phone while they should be working or having a consultation with me. I am a dinosaur.

Re: School work experience

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:31:41 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] the way young people especially use their phones these days isn't going to change with dark mutterings about politeness.[/quote]

How about some loud and extremely angry explicit expostulations about politeness?

[/quote] Remember when you had long hair and played loud rock music (well perhaps you didn't) and 'old' people told you to get it cut/turn it down what you thought of them? Well perhaps we were a bit more polite but that is how young people view us when we tell them to stop using their phones. My nurses will just go and do it secretly, they are too good to sack and the replacements will be the same. Remember the words of Bob Dylan's; 'The Times They are A-Changing'?

Re: School work experience

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 23:09:33 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] the way young people especially use their phones these days isn't going to change with dark mutterings about politeness.[/quote]

How about some loud and extremely angry explicit expostulations about politeness?

Re: School work experience

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 17:31:54 GMT

We've had this discussion before and I said the same then. I feel there is an obligation to offer work experience places however inconvenient it may be, let us not forget we would not be discussing this matter on this forum if we had not had the opportunity so we owe it to the next generation. However I will not accept block bookings from schools, each student has to apply individually and attends a very brief and informal interview with me and the nurses just to make sure they're not total time wasters and those who clearly have no hope of even becoming a veterinary nursing assistant are politely directed to the boarding kennels or pet shop! I feel the interview is a good opportunity to advise them on what subjects they should be taking as many schools don't seem to know or be very helpful and once again I feel there is a great responsibility on me to help these young people as much as possible. Everyone deserves the opportunity to be treated equally and even a refusal but taking the time to explain why, and where they may be better suited, is better for their self-esteem than outright refusal or just not replying to requests. If they fail to live up to their responsibilities I (or even better the nurses) will give them a talking to, I've not yet had to send one back to school.

As for phones I'm struggling to stop my nurses using them at work let alone clients or students - I think some of you may still be living in the last century, the way young people especially use their phones these days isn't going to change with dark mutterings about politeness.

Re: School work experience

Julie Innes — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 16:42:15 GMT

[quote user="patrick murphy"]

probably discussed, but what are the responses when a client's phone goes off?

[/quote]

I don't get upset really- they are paying for my time, and if they choose to use it answering the phone, that's up to them!! I've found most are apologetic and say "I'm in the vet's- I'll ring you back!"

I would have been horrified if WE's phone had gone off in a consult, however- bad enough it went off while we were xraying!

Re: School work experience

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 16:10:02 GMT

I work in an area with lots of ....errrrrmmmm ... undereducated people. I have them answer their phones frequently, not only in the waiting room but also during consults. I politely ask them to stop talking on the phone and if they refuse I leave the room and make them wait. If I get really pissed off by it they get charged considerably more, and it is explained to them that they have to pay for the time they made me wait.

Re: School work experience

Ian Mostyn — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 15:51:18 GMT

[quote user="patrick murphy"]

probably discussed, but what are the responses when a client's phone goes off?

[/quote]

I just continue with my consult and ignore the phone and expect the owner to ignore it as well (or switch it off). I haven't had anyone have a conversation in the consult room yet so that hasn't come up. I had one lady in the waiting room on the phone when I was trying to call her in. When she ignored me for the third time, I took the next person in and made them wait.

Ian

Re: School work experience

patrick murphy — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 13:29:58 GMT

probably discussed, but what are the responses when a client's phone goes off?

Re: School work experience

Jo Cobbett — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 13:25:01 GMT

We usually have them come in for a single day first, the idea being that if we get on ok (and it works both ways), they come back for their full week, and if we don't, they don't. Having said that, I think every single one does come in for their full week, even if they are hopeless, so I'm not quite sure why we bother! We had one girl last year who was so squeamish she couldn't/wouldn't watch any ops or procedures, she didn't really want to be in consults, and she spent most of the week sitting on the floor of the kennel room poking her fingers into kennels asking to have them bitten off, despite being told several times that it wasn't a good idea. I told the receptionist who manages the WE that I didn't think she was suitable to come back after her first day, but she still came back. It seems such a shame when we are limited as to how many people we can take on, to waste time with people who aren't achieving anything by being there, not to mention getting in our way too!

Re: School work experience

bob lehner — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 09:38:29 GMT

[quote user="Jenny Smith"]We had one boy who wanted to be a vet because "my dad is a doctor and I like dogs". Hmmmmm. Another who was with us during Wimbledon week, and would often be found in the staff room watching the tennis.[/quote]

Agree - very variable standards with those who come through the schools.

When the whole school WE thing started we took them regularly, but it was soon evident that many were absolutely useless and had no interest in the job - you could spot them as they walked through the door for the first time.

Had to get rid of one hyper-active young eejit who seemed to have ADHD, or was possibly on some illicit substances, when I caught him trying to tie a fibre-optic endoscope into a reef-knot ! Had to say to others 'Our walls here are quite strong - you don't actually need to prop them up'. Others would started talking to, and even offer advice to clients during consults - aaagh !

On the other hand we had many excellent 'Saturday boys/girls' over the years who went on to vet school.

On a more serious note - make jolly sure you jump through the right H&S hoops - do a risk assessment for ' Young people in the workplace' and keep your CD cupboard well and truly locked at all times, with ketamine etc. absolutely unobtainable.

Re: School work experience

Julie Innes — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 08:49:23 GMT

Fine by me!

Re: School work experience

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 08:03:28 GMT

go ahead!

Re: School work experience

Jenny Smith — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 07:41:22 GMT

No worries here either :)

Re: School work experience

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 01:37:15 GMT

By all means.

Re: School work experience

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 23:09:31 GMT

[quote user="Sylvia Wilson"]Would anyone who has posted thus far object if I passed on some anonymised comments to the relevant teachers in the local schools? [/quote]

No problems here.

Re: School work experience

Sylvia Wilson — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:44:21 GMT

I do a lot of work with local secondary schools, specifically with preparation for work experience and later employment. Would anyone who has posted thus far object if I passed on some anonymised comments to the relevant teachers in the local schools? I think it would be very enlightening for them!

Re: School work experience

Hanna Bennett — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:42:23 GMT

we have an agreement with the local schools that we ask the student to write us a letter explaining why they want a career within the veterinary profession and then interview them - weans out the worst offenders but we still get some who show no interest once here despite this but then i guess some of them have no idea what to expect

Re: School work experience

Jenny Smith — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:38:36 GMT

I was lucky enough to be given a chance as a 14 year old to sweep floors, clean kennels and generally help out in a local practice every saturday morning. I know without it I wouldn't be where I am today! That said, I have seen and met some shocking WE people. Some when I was working as a receptionist and some in my (admittedly short...) time as a vet. We had one boy who wanted to be a vet because "my dad is a doctor and I like dogs". Hmmmmm. Another who was with us during Wimbledon week, and would often be found in the staff room watching the tennis.

That said I've seen a couple of people who I think are going to be brilliant vets if they make it through, including one girl who impressed me so much that I said I'd give her a reference for vet school applications. She started this September :)

It's difficult because you never know who you're going to get, and a blanket ban might make it impossible for someone who is going to make it to get that experience they need. That said, it's a lot of work if they're not the right person and just make life difficult for the practice

Re: School work experience

Ian Mostyn — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:24:23 GMT

We tend to get 7 or 8 each year and it usually works out at one per school. They tend to all do work experience at the same time which minimises the number we can take and we try not to accept them on consecutive weeks. Initially, we only take them for 1 week until we know they are interested and then they can come back again later if they want. We have sent a couple back to school because they were absolutely useless and obviously not interested in the job at all. I find about half of them faint or have to go outside for some air when they see their first op although some of that is standing up all day. A couple of them have gone all the way through to qualifying from vet school - it does give you a nice buzz. I would miss it if we didn't have any, maybe I have a latent teaching gene?

Ian