Pet insurance cover limits!

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:29:07 GMT

Well, l don't think that I could, but just playing along for a minute; if we look at surgical time; it's possible that someone who's fast and good at TPLO's could make a 1500 price work. He/She would have to be pretty darn quick, though! How much does one TPLO kit cost?

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Bob Russell — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:52:47 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"][quote user="Clive Ansell"]

[quote user="patrick murphy"]

[quote user="Claire McConnell"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]When I hear of a pyo costing £5300[/quote]

eek!

[/quote] eek as well. one of the new ones I saw the other day has a restriction of £1500 for cruciate disease.

[/quote]

eek and double eek. I came across a referred cruciate case that had a TPLO op recently = £4000

[/quote] Personally I don't see how you cannot make a reasonable profit doing a cruciate for £1500, TPLO or not.

[/quote]

Really?

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Bob Russell — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:51:12 GMT

Actually trying it on!

Time to break things down further. Lower consultation fee but bigger add-ons. Bigger injection/dispensing charges?

All a backwards step really but with Direct Line limiting hospitalisation charges, nursing and other charges need to be charged separately. It is clearly going to be a cat and mouse game with some insurance companies.

Our 'blacklist' of insurance companies just gets longer! Direct Line are in with the bad boys now!

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Mark Holmes — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:44:56 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

[quote user="patrick murphy"]

[quote user="Claire McConnell"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]When I hear of a pyo costing £5300[/quote]

eek!

[/quote] eek as well. one of the new ones I saw the other day has a restriction of £1500 for cruciate disease.

[/quote]

eek and double eek. I came across a referred cruciate case that had a TPLO op recently = £4000

[/quote] Personally I don't see how you cannot make a reasonable profit doing a cruciate for £1500, TPLO or not.

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:43:21 GMT

They're not regulating or imposing anything; just declining to pay for it. (not agreeing with what they're doing, it's nasty, )

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Clive Ansell — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:37:24 GMT

[quote user="patrick murphy"]

2 new insurance isms. Direct Line refused to pay £6 of my modest consult fee, as they just felt that £31.40 + vat is too much.

E&L now deduct 10% of all hospitalisation fees.

[/quote]

I didn't realise they could actually do that? they have no authority to impose or regulate fees at all.

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Clive Ansell — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:35:49 GMT

[quote user="patrick murphy"]

[quote user="Claire McConnell"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]When I hear of a pyo costing £5300[/quote]

eek!

[/quote] eek as well. one of the new ones I saw the other day has a restriction of £1500 for cruciate disease.

[/quote]

eek and double eek. I came across a referred cruciate case that had a TPLO op recently = £4000

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

patrick murphy — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:31:04 GMT

[quote user="Claire McConnell"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]When I hear of a pyo costing £5300[/quote]

eek!

[/quote] eek as well. one of the new ones I saw the other day has a restriction of £1500 for cruciate disease.

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

patrick murphy — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:22:53 GMT

2 new insurance isms. Direct Line refused to pay £6 of my modest consult fee, as they just felt that £31.40 + vat is too much.

E&L now deduct 10% of all hospitalisation fees.

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Anthony Todd — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:42:51 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]We do it with car insurance why not pets?[/quote]

Could we suggest no claims bonuses at the same time; they must have the IT skills in place?

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Bob Russell — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:38:16 GMT

Price comparison websites are not independent and never have been. They have special 'arrangements' with certain insurance companies, hence the Animal Friends policies come top.

The companies that will not give (enough?) commission tend to be a long way down the list of come up as failing to quote.

One of my patients has just had a hip replacement and the owner has had to fork out nearly half the cost. there is nothing in the 'bank' for the second hip which is pretty much as bad as the first. Hopefully the dog will cope but in the meantime the owners are saving!

The insurance companies need to get their act together and find more flexible options. Only one site I got a quote from gave me the option of a voluntary excess of up to £100.

What is wrong with a voluntary excess of £300 for example? It will remove a massive number of claims whilst allowing protection against the major disasters. We do it with car insurance why not pets?

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Bibs — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 23:15:48 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

Yes I realise that they were only suggestions, and if you had read my comment re "could" and "should" you would realise that, far from denigrating the approach in the case that I took out of context, I was referring to the approach when a patient is insured which tends to be as my example quoted.

It was easier to take the suggestions out of context than to list them separately

[/quote]

What I objected to was quoting people completely out of context and with no reference to the original question in that case, in which we had no information about whether the animal was insured or not anyway, so was completely irrelevant anyway!

I am totally against 'overservicing' just because an animal is insured.

[/quote] It was me that was quoted from the other thread and I have to say I don't feel happy about it. It made me feel bad to see my words quoted in this thread in this context. For the record, I didn't do all those tests in the two cases I've seen with similar symptoms, but might have done if it hadn't been clear where the bleeding was coming from after palpation and ultrasound. I'm pretty glad I have the approach I do since one of these dogs had a bladder tumour. I'd have felt like a right tit after spaying that without any tests before hand. I get the feeling my words are being highlighted to look foolish in order to justify someone else's preference for not investigating at all.

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

rjhvet — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 22:16:17 GMT

Excellent idea. Horse and Hound magazine are about to launch their own comparison site for horse insurance to try and clarify situation for owners. I usually tell my clients to steer clear of price comparison sites unless they understand differences between ' cover for life', yearly policies and the slightly sneaky 'cover up to a certain amount per condition' often masquerading as cover for life !

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Anthony Todd — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 20:30:18 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]I am totally against 'overservicing' just because an animal is insured.[/quote]

So am I but its a trend in modern veterinary medicine which may destroy the viability and economics of pet insurance.

This trend is exacerbated by pet insurance in that the tests are not added to the perceived cost in the client's mind, but add to the fee....

I quote again the RMM cartoon, in context I hope:

"I just want the dog to get better doc, so skip the blood tests"

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Hanna Bennett — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 20:12:25 GMT

we don't pay petplan except via recommendation, and through them we are an approved representative, allows us to advertise them and discuss the different types of policies, just requires all our staff to do an online course each year which they all really enjoy. i advise clients to avoid 12 month policies as so many dogs have chronic illnesses ie. skin disease. Granted the one off cover is helpful but what happens when it happens again (repeated fbs). Maximum benefit (no time limit but fees limit per condition) is one i discuss as useful if clients cannot afford lifetime cover. Still think lifetime cover is best but for some of our clients that is not an option and i would rather they had some insurance than none as this makes a huge difference to our aged debt figures - for alot of our clients £200 is not an affordable sum.

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Laurence Webb — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 18:53:37 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]

Is anyone else on here of the sceptical leaning that surely all the cost comparison websites are getting some kickbacks or funding from the insurance companies they advertise? If anything, it's bound to be less independent than the advice we would give if we were allowed to!!!

[/quote]

Is that not frowned upon by the FSA?

[/quote]

Frowned upon or not, how else do these sites exist? They direct traffic to insurance companies. The information certainly isn't presented as an equal balance between all insurers - for example:

http://www.moneysupermarket.com/c/pet-insurance/dog-insurance/

6 companies listed. There's far more than that available, and they all link direct to the insurer. Not exactly unbiased is it? Or if it is, I don't see how. Clients are just as likely to look here - it's in the google top few results when searching pet insurance.

[/quote]

They may be registered as brokers (costs a few thousands per year but that is peanuts to a large concern such as moneysupermarket.com. Alternatively, because they make comparisons on cost alone and don't make any recommendations, they may avoid needing to be FSA regulated. The same is not true if you are making a recommendation based on what you feel is the best policy for a particular client. That's offering financial advice, and for that you need to be a registered Financial Advisor

Affiliate links to insurers pay the 'introducer' variable amounts, ranging from £20 to £50 per policy sold.

Anyone can get affiliate links on their website and I suspect most smaller sites aren't FSA registered. I looked into it briefly for our practice website. When I discussed it with the FSA I was told that links from a vet practice website would be viewed as being a recommendation, so wasn't worth having.

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

James Laidlaw — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 18:14:34 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="James Laidlaw"] If anything, it's bound to be less independent than the advice we would give if we were allowed to!!![/quote]

Are you sure? Before the FSA rules, the insurance companies were always offering little "inducements"; often in the form of pathetic little bribes to nursing staff. Maybe they still do?

Edit: Yes they do. Just look at the banner at the top of this very page.

[/quote]

OK, not EVERYONE is going to be giving independent advice, but you'd like to think the majority of the profession has standards...

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

James Laidlaw — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 18:12:57 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]

[/quote]

Is that not frowned upon by the FSA?

[/quote]

Frowned upon or not, how else do these sites exist? They direct traffic to insurance companies. The information certainly isn't presented as an equal balance between all insurers - for example:

http://www.moneysupermarket.com/c/pet-insurance/dog-insurance/

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:41:54 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"] If anything, it's bound to be less independent than the advice we would give if we were allowed to!!![/quote]

Are you sure? Before the FSA rules, the insurance companies were always offering little "inducements"; often in the form of pathetic little bribes to nursing staff. Maybe they still do?

Edit: Yes they do. Just look at the banner at the top of this very page.

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Anthony Dennison — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:38:53 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]

[/quote]

Is that not frowned upon by the FSA?

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

James Laidlaw — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:37:16 GMT

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Anthony Todd — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:44:02 GMT

Have a look at insureyourpet.com, maybe it's all done already?

Run by a vet in the west country I think.

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Kate Richardson — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:42:04 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

It was easier to take the suggestions out of context than to list them separately

[/quote]

I am totally against 'overservicing' just because an animal is insured.

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:35:56 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]1) I enjoy the forums but we all disagree, well mostly, and that's the fun of it, so trying to do a survey and then publish it would be tricky[/quote]

Not sure I understand why it would be tricky. The survey is really just a measure of consensus, so if you disagree it doesn't matter.

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]You need a rolling format, for this too be successful needs a lot of work and a lot of web sites are like Kevin Keegans football management, great start up but then fails long term[/quote]

Really, the point of the site would be as a reference source for pet owners looking for information. It doesn't exist to try and hook the reader to keep returning for more, so the rolling format is less important. That said, it is important that the content looks current, so I think we would need to carry out at least 1 poll per month. I think we could incorporate it within the newsletter.

I think it is something I am going to trial in a limited fashion first - and see whether it is worth growing ..

Re: Pet insurance cover limits!

Rob Davis — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:33:36 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"] It isn't direct line btw, but animal friends in this case.[/quote]

No surprise there. I recently had a client with an "Animal Friends" policy who thought he had $3000 per year cover.... it turned out this was true, but there was a maximum of $500 per condition! Dog ended up being euthanased rather than treated because of this, owner was not happy.