Sheep killed at dockside in Ramsgate

Re: Sheep killed at dockside in Ramsgate

Tim Cheyne — Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:14:34 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="Tim Cheyne"]

Isn't it illegal to slaughter an animal within sight of others awaiting slaughter and was this done, necessarily, here?

Tim.

[/quote]

My Dad was involved with this (VO for AHVLA). They scrounged some sheet corrugated metal from around the yard and hid each animal from view thatvway. Apparently most of the local vets that came to supervise, and all the RSPCA and dock workers were absolutely useless. Dad and a colleague had to round up all the sheep themselves, find some sort of screen to block the captive bolting from view.

[/quote]

Thanks for the further info, Anthony. Good to know that this was thought of and done. Sorry to hear that your dad had so little help but I do not find that surprising these days.

Tim.

Re: Sheep killed at dockside in Ramsgate

Sylvia Wilson — Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:33:04 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]

In my 10 years as a MAFF vet I found the RSPCA to be one of the most despicable crew I ever had to deal with. They were concerned first and foremost with their own image, on one occasion I had to threaten them with the press because they refused point blank to take some calves into 'protective custody', their reason? it was a MAFF prosecution and they wouldn't get the kudos!

Grant is a political animal who managed to keep his ethics under control while he made a fortune - For most of the past decade, he was UK chairman of Burson Marsteller, a vast consultancy which has a mixed reputation in animal rights circles on account of its lucrative work for such corporations as Unilever, AstraZeneca and GlaxoSmithKline, which test products on animals - now he's back on the political scene, using the RSPCA as a vehicle to give him a national identity so that he can re-launch his political career.

The decision to spend a third of a million to secure a prosecution against the Heythrop was an utter disrace given that they'd just sacked 90 of their own staff but seen as a political action designed to elevate the CE's profile , it makes perfect sense. His promise to campaign against Halal is just wind, no Lib Dem with an ear for the Party's zeitgeist would dare offend the Muslim bloc, Simon Hughes, a prominent Lib Dem and a prominent gay (death penalty, Iran, Saudi) cringes appropriately - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fHZYXOm898Q

As to the waterfront debacle, it sounds like a massive over-reaction resulting from pushy inspectors vs weak DEFRA. This shouldn't happen, RSPCA inspectors don't have warrants, if they become tiresome, over-excited or generally annoying, then the VO can just ask them to leave, old fashioned MAFF/DEFRA VO's with an ounce of gumption would have told them where to go and finally, should the individual who ordered the sheep unloaded into dangerous premises be charged with causing unecessary pain and distress?

As a general point, some of the nastiest people I have ever met in my thirty odd years in practice have worked for animal charities.

[/quote]

And I thought I was the only one.

In my 18 years as a VO, I never found the RSPCA to be of any use whatsoever in relation to farm animals. We could guarantee that if the weather was foul or it was Friday afternoon, they would be on the phone wanting us to take on a visit a welfare complaint, but if there was a chance of publicity, we couldn't keep them away. In my first year as a VO (3 years qualified), I had to virtually drag an RSPCA inspector off a farm because he had obviously arrived with the prior intention of prosecuting the owner without ever seeing the stock because he didn't approve of the management system.

Re: Sheep killed at dockside in Ramsgate

Anthony Dennison — Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:06:56 GMT

[quote user="Tim Cheyne"]

Isn't it illegal to slaughter an animal within sight of others awaiting slaughter and was this done, necessarily, here?

Tim.

[/quote]

Re: Sheep killed at dockside in Ramsgate

Gerry Henry — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:25:22 GMT

As a general point, some of the nastiest people I have ever met in my thirty odd years in practice have worked for animal charities.

Re: Sheep killed at dockside in Ramsgate

Bob Russell — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:28:54 GMT

I am so fundamentally anti-RSPCA organisation because of previous experiences I would not be able to give any form of balanced opinion!

The sooner they stop playing politics and go back to basics the better.

(I do accept there are many working for and with the RSPCA who do a great job but nobody seems to be there when we need support!)

Re: Sheep killed at dockside in Ramsgate

Lucy K — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:56:27 GMT

[quote user="Tim Cheyne"]

Isn't it illegal to slaughter an animal within sight of others awaiting slaughter and was this done, necessarily, here?

Tim.

[/quote]

I wondered this too. It doesn't sound like they had two separate areas out of sight of each other.

Re: Sheep killed at dockside in Ramsgate

Tim Cheyne — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:40:49 GMT

Isn't it illegal to slaughter an animal within sight of others awaiting slaughter and was this done, necessarily, here?

Tim.

Re: Sheep killed at dockside in Ramsgate

David Shepherd — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 12:25:49 GMT

Difficult to say what really happened until the report comes out. People may huff and puff about live exports but it remains a legal and legitimate trade, and in some ways less stressful for the sheep than being hauled from one end of the UK to the other to a slaughterhouse, without any requirement for prior examination or supervision. I've been involved before in inspecting these sheep before loading; the accompanying paperwork makes it clear that sheep with mild lameness may be loaded so long as the vet does not consider their welfare will be compromised. So a degree of professional judgement involved; it would be unsurprising if the RSPCA inspectors (who may or may not have any real life experience of sheep farming) were to browbeat a DEFRA vet (who almost certainly would have no real life experience of sheep, given the current DEFRA carreer paths) into overreacting to some slightly lame sheep. It certainly doesnt look as if the welfare of these sheep was improved by the action taken.

Look forward to reading the report, if it ever comes out

David

Re: Sheep killed at dockside in Ramsgate

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:51:25 GMT

The blood was irrelevant-hysterical nonsense Did the journalist thinkthere isn't blood in a slaughter house or that sheep aren't terrified there?

The storm drain episode was tragic

I'm implacably opposed to live export so think it should be rigorously policed Since DEFRA veterinarians considered so many of the sheep unfit for transport questions need to be asked on whether the original veterinarian who signed them fit was guilty of doctor style certification

Possibly one for DC

Wynne

Re: Sheep killed at dockside in Ramsgate

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:07:20 GMT

Anyone who knows anything about humane killing devices knows that if you use them properly, then you don't get any blood,' says the NFU's Langrish. 'They make a single piercing straight through into the brain and the animal dies.'

Rubbish. Often you get blood out the hole. They need bleeding or pithing as a captive bolt is not a means of killing. Pithed or bled properly they always bleed.