Professional Witness

Re: Professional Witness

Zoe Davies — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 11:41:53 GMT

Sounds like you've had some good advice from VDS, but you may also find the BVA Guide to being a professional witness useful. It's available for BVA members here: http://www.bva.co.uk/members/documents/BVA_Professional_Witness_Guide.pdf?GUID=b1224be5-3b0c-4bea-8f77-96dca0149d9e

Re: Professional Witness

Julie Innes — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 13:39:49 GMT

I was called as an "expert witness" years ago in a wildlife case. I didn't get paid, although I'm sure they may have paid my boss at the time and I just got my wages as normal- wonder how much he charged them??!!

I agree with being very careful!! I was the so-called "expert witness", despite protesting that I wasn't an expert! Apparently my relative experience in the area made me one. The prosecution tried to get me to say all sorts of things, mainly conjecture about what might have caused certain injuries and I refused to be drawn, saying I couldn't say. He got pretty sneery, "I thought you were an expert!" so i politely told him that treating animals was my area of expertise, not figuring out what might or might not have caused the injuries ie I wasn't a forensics expert!

I'd always advise that you stick to the absolute facts of the case and try not to get drawn into "would you think.. given this set of circumstances is it likely...in your opinion, IF etc" It annoys the hell out of the solicitors, but keeps you from saying anything you can't completely back up, and stops you getting shredded!! Good luck!

Re: Professional Witness

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 09:38:52 GMT

I was lucky in being 10yrs+ qualified before doing a court case-and if the poor animal's suffering wasn't so harrowing I would quite enjoy it Solicitors aren't that fearsome If you start to feel intimidated just remind yourself that the A level grades for veterinary science are higher than for law Good luck It's enormously satisfying to help obtain a conviction against someone whose illtreated animals-althoufgh frustrating the punishments are so woefully inadequate

Wynne

Re: Professional Witness

Anthony Dennison — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 09:10:42 GMT

Thanks Evelyn, I'll get working on my thick skin now.

Re: Professional Witness

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 22:50:21 GMT

[quote user="newgradvet"]

I'm sure you are correct Evelyn about the 6 months out thing however surely studying for 5 years and being a qualified vet cf lay witness has to mean something as well, I hope!

[/quote]

Sure, and the solicitor on your side should bring this out if he's competent. (Solicitors in magistrates courts do sometimes seem to have poor advocacy skills). The other side will attack you any way they can. If they fail to disparage you, they will hope to fluster you. Just saying.

Re: Professional Witness

Claire McConnell — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 22:42:29 GMT

I'm sure you are correct Evelyn about the 6 months out thing however surely studying for 5 years and being a qualified vet cf lay witness has to mean something as well, I hope!

Re: Professional Witness

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 22:26:34 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

Thanks for the clarification of 'expert' and 'professional' witness - I've been told that I may be going to court with an RSPCA case I'm involved in, and was worried I might get picked apart for being an expert witness when I'm only 6 months out!

[/quote]

You'll get picked apart anyway for being only six months out. The opposition solicitor will attack you any way he can. Just warning you.

Re: Professional Witness

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:02:30 GMT

Re: Professional Witness

Glenn Hodgson — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 11:54:24 GMT

Hi Bob,

Valid points re. Expert witness. I Spoke with VDS a couple of weeks ago and they sent me a crib sheet re. differentiation of witness/prof. witness/expert witness. Very important to draw a clear line between each I believe! Def. not an expert witness. I have advised then that they need a medicine specialist for such.

Re. fees.

The procurator fiscal appears to be prosecuting in this case not the SSPCA.

The inference that our fees may be high for a professional witness (not expert). I have done a lot of work FOC for wildlife/community spirit through my career. Being devils advocate however could be not be deemed unfair to charge the fiscal less than my clients?

I think it would possible be hard to charge if do not attend/pleads guilty.

Please take my comments in the spirit of debate :-)

Glenn

Re: Professional Witness

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 10:43:54 GMT

I've done a lot of prosecution work for the RSPCA The CPS have an approved hourly rate for veterinary surgeons so I charge this

Wynne

Re: Professional Witness

Bob Russell — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 08:24:42 GMT

I was called to give evidence on a cruelty case by the RSPCA a couple of years ago but was concerned by the term 'expert witness' that was being bandied about by the RSPCA.

I consider myself an experienced GP but would never describe myself as an expert so checked with VDS. They were adamant that I was not to describe myself as an expert but to explain my situation/experience clearly to the court.

Just like any other witness I charged for my expenses, in my case locum fees etc and the RSPCA paid this but as the defendant was on a low income I doubt much of this was recovered in costs.

He did plead guilty days before the case was to be heard and it was not necessary for me to attend. If you charge normal professional fees and don't go would you still be able to charge? It is not normal practice to charge for visits and consultations that get cancelled in advance (we threaten to charge for missed appointments though).

If you genuinely are an expert in your field then your charges seem appropriate but perhaps a quiet chat to VDS might be an idea!

Re: Professional Witness

Glenn Hodgson — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 07:28:35 GMT

I clarified yesterday and they requested I attend as a "professional expert witness". After a discussion it appears they want me there as a "professional witnesd" as per rcvs definitions.

We have gone to lengths to calculate viable fees for "visit-business hours"and "vet-non-surgical time". My initial intention is to charge these. Aprox 70+for visit and 160+/hour for time.

I'll confirm both with them in writing Prior to attending.

I'll update here how it goes. The likelyhood is that the accused will plead guilty 5mins prior to the hearing and waste everyones timr

Re: Professional Witness

james herriot lied — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 01:37:04 GMT

By 'professional witness' are you there as a veterinary surgeon, acting within the normal remit of a GP, 1st opinion professional (e.g. cruelty cases against lay people where you give your 'normal' clinical opinion).

Or are you being expected to act more as an expert witness, where your opinion is being held as of greater value than the vet on the Clapham omnibus?

There'd be a fairly big difference in fees, I suspect (having managed to avoid having to actually go to court). If you were called as a witness for the CPS, could you actually charge your own fee? I may / may not be called as a witness in an upcoming (non-veterinary) court case, and nobody's mentioned reimbursing me for lost wages.

Re: Professional Witness

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:34:02 GMT

[quote user="Glenn Hodgson"]

Good evening

I have been summoned to court to be a professional witness.

How much do others charge for this?

I would rather operate or vaccinate puppies for sure!

[/quote]

I have PM'd you