New Years Honours

Re: New Years Honours

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 16:17:38 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Oh, come on:

"The survey measured cycling behaviour over a 12 month period and asked about the number of times a person cycled. A ‘regular cyclist’ is a cyclist who has cycled at least 12 times in the past year."

Once a month?? I'd bet Dr Lehner cycles more than that.

As I suspected, complete marketingspeak balls. (the whole survey report is twaddle: 'market leading panel providers' = anyone who would actually respond)

[/quote] Why be so cynical (OK I know you can't help yourself)? There is no need for statistics, membership of BC has dramatically increased (no I can't remember the figures but it is far in excess of normal expectation) and I see far more recreational cyclists out on the roads at weekends: MAMILs, families, former cyclists who have obviously been inspired to dust off old equipment and brush the moths off their cycling clothes, kids with their dads.....that I would not have seen in the past. OK these are not people who have been inspired necessarily to take up racing but they are out keeping fit. That was until the weather turned sh1t, now its just us hard core out there braving the rain and wind. Time will tell if the Wiggo effect is longer lasting in the Spring but I suspect public opinion and the attitude of drivers will have to change if the newbies are to be encouraged to continue.

Re: New Years Honours

patrick murphy — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:48:49 GMT

finally, finally in the Independent yesterday a report said that BMI's above the accepted normals, lived longer! must be the red wine

Re: New Years Honours

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 10:31:43 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

You're not going to get rid of me that soon

Wynne

[/quote]www.youtube.com/watch

(I'm going to burn in hell for this one, sorry!)

Re: New Years Honours

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 09:45:18 GMT

You're not going to get rid of me that soon

Wynne

Re: New Years Honours

Ian Mostyn — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 00:29:17 GMT

It is not just the direct cost to the NHS but also the loss of productivity that occurs through illness. Perhaps we should all have compulsory retirement at 60 then euthanasia 2 years later and also euthanasia of anyone whose disease is likely to cost more than £200. We could save a lot of money that way. As dying young is so cheap we should encourage heavy drinking, obesity & smoking and ban any physical exercise.

Re: New Years Honours

Mark Holmes — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 23:57:09 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"]

[quote user="plantagenet"]well arguably if they just get very very old, even healthily, the state will probably just pick up an equal tab a bit later.[/quote]

That is probably not true as a healthy lifestyle will give far fewer diseases on average but also we are not paying for years and years of insulin therapy etc. It has to be far cheaper in the long run for everyone to eat well, be a sensible weight and exercise regularly.

Ian

[/quote] Actually now to play Devil's Advocate, the reason the government doesn't ban smoking or tax alcohol and unhealthy food so highly as to make it affordable except in moderation is because the revenue gained from taxation outweighs the cost of healthcare in the short/medium term for all the cirrhotic-obese-lung cancer victims which in turn is less than the cost in old age pensions and care for those who live to ripe old age. Its all a conspiracy you know.

[/quote] I once wrote an essay on this subject. I cannot remember the references but the conclusion was that it is far far more expensive to nurse somebody in old age than treat smoking related disease. Essentially you die cheaper from smoking than being healthy and the "quitting saves the NHS money" thing requires you to be hit by a bus or euthanased as soon as you are unable to be independent.

Re: New Years Honours

David Mills — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 23:44:33 GMT

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"]

[quote user="David Mills"]And British Cycling - would love to see the parameters of that survey (and I'm a cyclist). [/quote]

http://www.goskyride.com/News/ShowArticle/A-million-more-cyclists--the-research

How the survey was conducted

A sample of 10,000 adults (16+) has been used to minimise sampling error. A sample of 10,000 provides a level of accuracy not afforded by a more normal sample size of 1,000 – for example a figure of 5% would be accurate to within +/- 0.4%, compared to +/- 1.4% for a sample of 1,000 (assuming 95% statistical confidence).

The research was conducted online, using samples from market leading panel providers. In order to add to accuracy of the sample, the data is weighted to reflect the overall demographic balance of the population. As a further failsafe, GFK has weighted the survey to a profile of cycling behaviour taken from a nationally representative sample of 2,000 adults questioned via a face-to-face omnibus survey.

GSK has only counted regular cyclists who have said that they have been influenced by Sky / British Cycling initiatives, or those that have stated that Sky / British Cycling was the main reason for them taking up cycling regularly. The survey has also only counted cyclists that have taken up cycling regularly over the past year.

[/quote]

Oh, come on:

Once a month?? I'd bet Dr Lehner cycles more than that.

As I suspected, complete marketingspeak balls. (the whole survey report is twaddle: 'market leading panel providers' = anyone who would actually respond)

Re: New Years Honours

Ian Mostyn — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 22:47:00 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]And British Cycling - would love to see the parameters of that survey (and I'm a cyclist). [/quote]

http://www.goskyride.com/News/ShowArticle/A-million-more-cyclists--the-research

How the survey was conducted

Re: New Years Honours

David Mills — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 20:02:53 GMT

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"]

The point is that they do it better than any of the other 7 billion people in the world.

[/quote]

Hmmm....really? For all its apparent inclusivity the accepted generality is that if developing countries had access to the funding - British Olympic athletes earn more in real terms via lottery funding than senior doctors in Nairobi - that developed countries do, they'd sweep the board. They already do well in events where technical expertise is not paramount - running particularly - but things such as cycling, sailing etc are predominantly rich country sports.

Add into this the huge, huge influence of luck in many events - Rutherford - and how the competition in a particular year decides the result (GB runner who came 8th in 800m would have won gold in 2008 with his time), and, overbearingly, the influence of genetics, and it ain't really a level playing field. As I said before, some people are born with a predisposition to be of Olympic quality. They do it for the glory. Now compare that with your average dedicated veterinary nurse, paid a low-ish wage, who does the job for the love of the patients. I know who'd I'd want honours to go to.

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"]

In total 1223 people got an award but only 70 ish for competing at the olympics. 10% of people won an award for sport but 72% won an award for work in their community. There is plenty of room for recognition of both groups of people.

[/quote]

There is, normally, but this year, as you'll be aware, they lifted the ceiling on sporting honours. 10% is too much; 70 completely ridiculous. In 12 months people will barely remember most of them. As Mr Russell said, they have their medals; to award them honours that people spend most of their life working tirelessly to achieve for little reward for performance at a glorified sports day is insulting to the system.

And British Cycling - would love to see the parameters of that survey (and I'm a cyclist).

Re: New Years Honours

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:25:03 GMT

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"]

[quote user="plantagenet"]well arguably if they just get very very old, even healthily, the state will probably just pick up an equal tab a bit later.[/quote]

Ian

Re: New Years Honours

Ian Mostyn — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 17:39:04 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]well arguably if they just get very very old, even healthily, the state will probably just pick up an equal tab a bit later.[/quote]

Ian

Re: New Years Honours

plantagenet — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 17:17:58 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]costing the taxpayer zillions in health care for diseases brought on by a sedentary lifestyle like heart disease, diabetes, back problems, cancer.....need I go on..[/quote]

well arguably if they just get very very old, even healthily, the state will probably just pick up an equal tab a bit later.

Re: New Years Honours

bob lehner — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:15:16 GMT

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"]

We can probably make some money putting the video on the internet

Ian

[/quote]

Well - if you are hoping to make money out of my pain you will have to volunteer to be my body-double for the movie.

.[quote user="Martin Atkinson"][quote user="bob lehner"]But then I'd sooner nail my testicles to a tree than partake in any sport.[/quote] I would never have guessed Bob. But this attitude is why the majority of the population is overweight and costing the taxpayer zillions in health care for diseases brought on by a sedentary lifestyle like heart disease, diabetes, back problems, cancer.....need I go on..[/quote]

And bad diet of course.

(Luckily I'm a bean pole and eat well - and take plenty of exercise - just not of the sporting variety).

Re: New Years Honours

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 12:15:00 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]But then I'd sooner nail my testicles to a tree than partake in any sport.[/quote] I would never have guessed Bob. But this attitude is why the majority of the population is overweight and costing the taxpayer zillions in health care for diseases brought on by a sedentary lifestyle like heart disease, diabetes, back problems, cancer.....need I go on..

Re: New Years Honours

Ian Mostyn — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 10:59:53 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Has Bradley W changed peoples lives for the better? I think he has - cycling and associated benefits are changing lives (not mine though!). He has achieved unbelievable things and more than deserves to be Sir Bradley![/quote]

+1.

According to British Cycling there are 1 million more people cycling in 2012 than 2008 thanks to things like Sky Ride, the Olympics and riders such as Bradley Wiggins, Mark Cavendish, Chris Hoy & Victoria Pendleton. With the current crop of new stars this should continue.

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Have the Paralympic contestants (or many Olympic ones) changed peoples lives for the better? Not convinced. The country is rightly proud of what they have done and basked in reflected glory but in most cases that should be enough. they have their medals.[/quote]

The Paralympics have increased the public awareness of disability sport massively and Britain is far ahead of most of the world in this respect. Hopefully this will continue and we can create a truly "Sport for All" attitude and environment, Paralympians, however, did much better than other non-olympic sports - 3 awards for football, 2 for rugby union, 1 for rugby league, 2 for hockey. Most of these awards were for long service and charity work rather than winning a single event. We should concentrate on boosting all sports participation.

Ian

Re: New Years Honours

Bob Russell — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 09:45:48 GMT

Have they changed the life of people in the country for the better?

A lollipop lady braving the elements and motorists year after year deserves recognition but every now and the one that makes just that bit more of a difference may deserve an honour - good for him or her.

Has Bradley W changed peoples lives for the better? I think he has - cycling and associated benefits are changing lives (not mine though!). He has achieved unbelievable things and more than deserves to be Sir Bradley!

Have the Paralympic contestants (or many Olympic ones) changed peoples lives for the better? Not convinced. The country is rightly proud of what they have done and basked in reflected glory but in most cases that should be enough. they have their medals.

Perhaps there should be sport related honours but there are plenty of people that change and enrich our lives who are more deserving of honours. A few sportsmen, a few TV personalities but only those that have made our lives richer and more fulfilled.

Sir Jimmy's demise gives room for one extra and the idea that the head of the FSA should be honoured rather than shipped off to penal servitude makes my blood boil!

Fewer honours should be awarded for those but only for those that have really made the UK a better place for us to live.

Re: New Years Honours

Mark Holmes — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 23:41:00 GMT

I did 't say anyone can be an Olympian just anyone can take up sport. How many people cite footballers as childhood heroes? Swimmers, rowers, cyclists don't get the same celebrity status. Honours provide public recognition, status and inspiration to achieve something even if not at Olympic level.

Re: New Years Honours

Ian Mostyn — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 23:05:23 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]Agree - total beyond me why someone who can ride a bicycle very fast or do the hop, skip and a jump rather well deserves a medal - they presumably get paid bucket loads of dosh for all this silliness. [/quote]

The point is that they do it better than any of the other 7 billion people in the world.

[quote user="bob lehner"]But then I'd sooner nail my testicles to a tree than partake in any sport.[/quote]

We can probably make some money putting the video on the internet

Ian

Re: New Years Honours

David Mills — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 22:38:46 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]I think you are missing the point of the honours system. Public recognition of an athlete's achievements inspires others. It inspires others particularly children and young adults to take up sport - vitally important when you consider the health and social benefits. I came to sport late, mainly because nobody I knew as a child had any interest in it. I had very little exposure. I wish I had had better inspiration in sport as a child.

[/quote]

I would suggest you read The Secret Olympian. In it, the olympian, a track athlete, repeatedly states how selfish athletes and professional sportspeople are. OK, there may be some inspiration - but this is yet to be proven other than by marketing people, unless you have some objective data other than anecdote, of course - but I'm skeptical, partly because there aren't the facilities for a lot of the sports of show, and partly because despite the great summer, memory fades fast - don't forget that 2 weeks before the Olympics 49% of people said they weren't bothered by it, and 80% of Londoners; it'll be interesting to see the follow up in a few months. Moreover, there is a naive view that anyone can be an oylmpian. Nope, about 3% of the population can.

Re: New Years Honours

Mark Holmes — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:03:27 GMT

I think you are missing the point of the honours system. Public recognition of an athlete's achievements inspires others. It inspires others particularly children and young adults to take up sport - vitally important when you consider the health and social benefits. I came to sport late, mainly because nobody I knew as a child had any interest in it. I had very little exposure. I wish I had had better inspiration in sport as a child.

Re: New Years Honours

David Mills — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:14:50 GMT

Pleased that the paralympics now have a more prominent place; however in a sport where a wheelchair racer can win both 800m and marathon, for me, shows the competition has some way to go.

The honours system has been hijacked since Blair by 'slebs and sportspeople and the well connected. Bankers with honours; ouch. The system was initially instituted for services to the country. We all like seeing Wiggins cycling but how is that any kind of self-sacrificing service? The guy's a sodding millionaire. Many athletes do it for their own satisfaction, and because they can't do anything else.

Its all the natural progression of the ridiculousness of 'Cool Britannia' and the age of spin, and forms some farcical parody where rockstars are granted access to top aid bodies as advisers. Pop stars with no qualifications, whatsoever.

Re: New Years Honours

bob lehner — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:09:47 GMT

Agree - total beyond me why someone who can ride a bicycle very fast or do the hop, skip and a jump rather well deserves a medal - they presumably get paid bucket loads of dosh for all this silliness.

But then I'd sooner nail my testicles to a tree than partake in any sport.

Re: New Years Honours

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:47:14 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] The only people who deserve honours are those who have given up their time or made personal sacrifice purely for others with no thought for what they may achieve personally.[/quote]

Quite. And OBEs, CBEs, even knighthoods fer cripes sake, scattered round like confetti over people who've just made pots of money doing their rather inconsequential work. Was it Harold Wilson who started this rubbish?Come on, Sir Paul McCartney ? (Ah, but he is now a jowly National Treasure) . Or Sir Michael Jagger?? Somebody's having a laugh, but I'm not sure who and at the expense of whom.

Re: New Years Honours

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:39:56 GMT

Lee Pearson has won 10 golds over either 3 or 4 Olympics but only got a CBE

Ellie may be young but that makes her achievments even more remarkable

Wynne

Re: New Years Honours

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:32:51 GMT

It is about time cyclists and those associated with cycling like Dave Brailsford got some recognition, we have after all been out-performing other sports for a long time without the general public being especially aware. However, I don't think any sportsmen should be given gongs and titles - they didn't set out to honour their country or make sacrifices to that end they did it for themselves maybe for money but mainly for their own self advancement or satisfaction. The only people who deserve honours are those who have given up their time or made personal sacrifice purely for others with no thought for what they may achieve personally. That all said Wiggo deserved SPOTY because as the name of the award suggests, he is the biggest sports personality and given the honours some of the other's got he should have been made a saint not a knight.