Nurse found dead

Re: Nurse found dead

laura woodward — Sun, 06 Jan 2013 03:35:47 GMT

That nurse was mentally ill,or depressed.No normal person commits suicide because of a prank call,or because of any kind of call really! If that were true,every vet on earth would commit suicide because of the kind of calls we receive from the public!

Re: Nurse found dead

Anthony Todd — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:30:46 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]I feel the hospital management do have a large measure of responsibility. [/quote]

Yes, me too, I seem to remember the rather unctious "general manager" making some early statement on SKY about staff being disciplined etc. when it was obvious the phone calls should have been better screened when a high-profile patient was in.

I think it was before the death was discovered.

I suspect the poor nurse thought she would lose the job she loved and never get another nursing job ever.

Re: Nurse found dead

HMC — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:06:55 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]I stopped posting on this forum because of a swipe at my kids who cannot defend themselves [/quote]

I wondered where you'd disappeared to. Welcome back.

Re: Nurse found dead

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 13:39:23 GMT

The DJs have now been interviewed:

www.youtube.com/watch

Re: Nurse found dead

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:04:25 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]I feel the hospital management do have a large measure of responsibility.[/quote]

Apparently, the radio station made more than 5 calls to the hospital to go through the tape with them before they aired it. The hospital ignored their calls. If they had been that concerned about the information it concerned, or the possible impact on their staff, don't you think they would have entered discussions with the radio station.

It was a prank that went terribly wrong that everyone concerned will have to live with - I sincerely pity them all.

Re: Nurse found dead

Virginia Campbell — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 11:05:40 GMT

[quote user="KMurphy"]What do people want? [/quote]

I don't think anybody wants anybody else's head.

Just thoughtfulness; mindfulness of how words and actions and reactions might affect other people.

I don't just mean on the part of the DJs either.

Re: Nurse found dead

bob lehner — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:55:06 GMT

[quote user="KMurphy"]Where do you draw the line of responsibility? The DJs who made the prank call? The nurse who actually gave the information rather than hanging up after the call was transferred? The hospital for not having a dedicated member of staff on each shift to deal with their royal charges? The hospital for perhaps being overly harsh in the aftermath (if they were - [/quote]

I feel the hospital management do have a large measure of responsibility. One would have thought that a place like that, well accustomed to having hi-profile patients inc. the RF, would have a more robust switchboard protocol in place, with properly trained staff on duty 24/7.

it has been reported that this unfortunate nurse was answering the 'phone because it was 5.30 am and no-one else was available .

Re: Nurse found dead

KMurphy — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:31:07 GMT

To those calling for the heads of the DJs - if a pet died whilst under your care and the owner of that pet then went on to kill themselves, do you feel that you should be held accountable for the death of that person? Or would you feel there must have been an awful lot more going on in that client's life and accept that your input to their death was just unfortunate timing? I'm certain if I were in that situation I would be physically sick but I don't think I would deserve to be blamed for someone's death.

Where do you draw the line of responsibility? The DJs who made the prank call? The nurse who actually gave the information rather than hanging up after the call was transferred? The hospital for not having a dedicated member of staff on each shift to deal with their royal charges? The hospital for perhaps being overly harsh in the aftermath (if they were - I have no idea)? The media who broadcast the whole thing - we wouldn't have known anything about it otherwise? The public who crave details about "celebrities"? Or maybe all the other pressures in that lady's life? Do people involved with her feel just as responsible? Should her family have noticed how down she was?

Suicide is complex and awful and devastating but rarely happens for something as minor as one bad day at work. I have every sympathy for this lady's family but I think the whole incident was just a regrettable misfortune but with tragic consequences.

What do people want? The DJs to meet a similar fate? Will everyone be happy then?

Re: Nurse found dead

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 23:12:22 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]Seems like Diana died in vain.[/quote]

So you think the Queen got this nurse killed too?

Re: Nurse found dead

Mark Holmes — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 23:03:45 GMT

That was my opinion. Very sad for all involved, the outcome was completely unforeseen or unforeseeable. Anybody who has ever driven a little fast for the conditions is guilty of risking a far more likely tragedy. I would have held to that opinion completely had it not transpired that the station has previous form bullying vulnerable people.

Re: Nurse found dead

Arlo Guthrie — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 21:55:50 GMT

Mark, do you know, I'm not really arguing anything about patient confidentiality. What I AM trying to say, probably not very well, is that it is easy to rush to judgement and condemn the DJs. Both in their early twenties. One had been in the job for a couple of days. They play a light hearted prank. Now they have to live with it for the rest of their lives. I try and put myself in their shoes (in my twenties), and I can quite understand why they might have thought it was a hoot to ring up and pretend to be the queen, barking in the background. I'm sure that will make me a lesser person in your eyes (and a few others, I guess, but there we go). On top of that, their prank was so obviously devoid of any malice whatsoever. So of course, desperately sad for the nurse and particularly her family, but very sad for two young people too.

Re: Nurse found dead

Mark Rowland — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 21:18:13 GMT

I don't really know what you are trying to say Arlo, should hospitals be deemed out of bounds NOW because someone committed suicide or because of respect for confidentiality has been realised. Because I am of the opinion that hospitals should have been out of bounds BEFORE this (and no it's not moral high ground it's bloody common sense and decency). Perhaps the biggest tragedy is that the media and others did not until now share this view.

Re: Nurse found dead

Arlo Guthrie — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 20:40:21 GMT

Well, this has certainly divided opinion. If anyone else read it, I think the Sunday Times editorial comment today was a really sensible, measured response. If I can précis it, they said the prank was amusing, if only because it was so amateurish, and that most people would surely admit to having at least smiled when they first heard it. But then the nurse who took the call was found dead, and whilst we cannot know what was going through her mind, it seems likely she was driven to it by a sense of failure, justified or not. Nevertheless, we should not be too hard on the presenters, who are said to be devastated, and who were only doing something which has been the stock in trade of radio stations around the world for many years. And pranks can be very funny, particularly when they prick an overblown ego. Nevertheless, people are entitled to confidentialty and hospitals have a right to expect calls to be genuine. Hospitals should now be deemed to be out of bounds as far as this type of prank is concerned.

As the doc I was talking about this with last night said, this is a tragic story from whichever perspective you look at it. Tragic for the nurse and her family. Devastating for the young DJs. Sad for Prince William and the Duchess of Cambridge to have such an important event in their lives marred. And I think that was really my point. I think everyone in this sad affair deserves sympathy, and we should not lynch the DJs.

Re: Nurse found dead

james herriot lied — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 19:49:52 GMT

Lovely.

Tell me what my arguments are and where I'm incorrect; we can work from there. I'm happy to accommodate you here, David, truly. I would like nothing more than for you to actually put my points back to me, with critiques and rebuttal. You can leave the non-sequiturs out this time, though.

As with everybody else, you're free to PM me to find out my real identity. I've stated this on a number of occasions.

Re: Nurse found dead

David Mills — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 18:51:08 GMT

[quote user="james herriot lied"]

Brilliant. You have nothing to say, so you say nothing of value. But at least you're speaking your mind, so do carry on.

[/quote]

Thank you for the permission. I'm sorry, I was still waiting for a coherent response from yourself; I was merely treading water, and had put your crass expletive response down to a fit of stroppy pique, but alas, it seems that my Mum was right - as soon as someone swears or calls your argument rubbish, its because they know they've lost. I note with interest, for the second time, that no response is forthcoming on the incorrect facts on which you based your argument. A little humility and backtracking can't hurt, can it? For someone hiding behind a pseudonym your ego can't be that obstructive, surely?

Re: Nurse found dead

bob lehner — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 17:24:31 GMT

[quote user="jamie winstone"] We are all to blame as in general sensational tabloid instant news.[/quote]

Whatever the detailed truth of the matter - which clearly we don't know at the moment - the whole episode is the result of the totally irrational, hysterical and obsessive hyper-interest in anything involving the Royal Family - and in particular the current younger ones.

Blame the media - but ultimately it is the public who fuel the media by seeming to have this bizarre craving for every morsel of intimate information about royalty.

Seems like Diana died in vain.

Re: Nurse found dead

james herriot lied — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 15:42:14 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Ah, so deteriorates rational debate into expletive spluttering. Would have thought with even a severely undermined argument, there might have been a, well, classier response forthcoming. Ho hum.

[/quote]

Brilliant. You have nothing to say, so you say nothing of value. But at least you're speaking your mind, so do carry on.

Re: Nurse found dead

David Mills — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 14:16:04 GMT

[quote user="james herriot lied"]

David, that entire answer was utter b*ll*cks. I can't really say any fairer than that.

[/quote]

Ah, so deteriorates rational debate into expletive spluttering. Would have thought with even a severely undermined argument, there might have been a, well, classier response forthcoming. Ho hum.

Can we at least agree that the nurse in question didn't give out any confidential information? And, therefore, by extension, one of the main premises of the puffed-up drawing-room-esque tut-tutting of most on this thread, is therefore, false?

Re: Nurse found dead

Virginia Campbell — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 13:05:58 GMT

[quote user="james herriot lied"] persuading a health professional into breaching client confidentiality would certainly put that person's livelihood at risk. The DJs went into this knowing that they could be getting somebody fired - and when they were put through, unexpectedly, they should perhaps have aborted the prank at that point, rather than milked it to the foreseeable detriment of both the nurses [/quote]

+1.

Forseeable outcomes:

1. The prank doesn't work -> all that happens is that you have wasted the time of staff in a maternity hospital.

2. The prank works, and you encourage your success to trend on twitter etc -> your victim is going feel bad about breaching confidentiality, even though it was a mistake on her part; and she may well be disciplined or even lose her job (seems like the hospital were sensible about it but severe disciplinary action would not be an unforseeable outcome).

But the listeners have a good larf. So that's OK then. Until the unforseeable happens. Now the two radio presenters are receiving counselling apparently. Possibly worried about losing their presenting jobs, if the public outcry frightens the station enough. Odd, sad karma.

Re: Nurse found dead

james herriot lied — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 13:04:04 GMT

Better they're up here where we can keep an eye on them, Malcolm, than down there running amok.

Re: Nurse found dead

Malcolm Ness — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 12:52:41 GMT

The moral high ground has got really crowded recently.

Re: Nurse found dead

jamie winstone — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 09:35:16 GMT

Every newspaper and news outlet ran the interview tape or wrote the script of this prank, it must have made things worse for this lady, but someone decided that it was a good laugh so the audience would want to know magnifying the prank. We are all to blame as in general sensational tabloid instant news. Hindsight is often mentioned here and we would all act differently if we had it.

At the time i found if quite amusing as it so highlighted the difficulties of our daily duties, obviously in different ways although truth be told I would ban all the prankster TV shows......Youve been framed, Balls of Steel, Candid Camera Etc..... There is always a victim

On reflection where are they now??! (Until the next one comes along.)

Re: Nurse found dead

james herriot lied — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 09:24:13 GMT

David, that entire answer was utter b*ll*cks. I can't really say any fairer than that. There wasn't a single point which actually made sense and it was just a string of non sequiturs, based on what you WISH others had said in order that you could become righteously indignant. Utterly pointless, but somewhat expected.

FWIW I think we all agree that this is a tragic, complex set of circumstances which may never be fully explained and which will never result in charges being brought against any party because, in fact, they're not warranted. Please don't presume the rest of us to be mindless bigots and that you hold all the truths - because that really would be a 'classic case of annoyance'.

Engage your brain, you clearly have one.

Re: Nurse found dead

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 09:17:49 GMT

I just can't help but get really tired of the same excuses flying around - "Don't blame us, the joke got out of hand! Obviously something was wrong with the victim!"

If 2 british DJ's had pulled this and someone had committed suicide, I'd still be quite unhappy. Sure, I enjoy a good joke, and aside from a few puns that will get me thrown off a bus someday, funny stuff I pull has never intentionally hurt anyone. The times it has I richly deserved all the crap I received, because I was probably being an ass.

Re: Nurse found dead

David Mills — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 00:26:41 GMT

[quote user="james herriot lied"]

If I duped you into releasing client information,

[/quote]

The nurse in question wasn't duped into that. She just passed the phone on.

Herein lies the problem - tabloidic conflation of facts to form a good, convenient, narrative.

[quote user="james herriot lied"]

it wouldn't necessarily be my fault if you commited suicide as a result. But if you did, I'd forever blame myself and I'd certainly have to accept that I'd contributed to your death. If, on the other hand, the client made a complaint about you to the RCVS and you were held accountable for the data breach, wouldn't you be the tiniest bit annoyed with me? Would I still be blameless, a harmless japester?

[/quote]

Nothing but speculation, this, I'm afraid. We have no idea why she committed suicide. It may/not have been a result of this, which, let us not forget, is formed on entirely false premises in that she didn't divulge any data. Hell, even the nurse who did was spectacularly non-committal and told them what everyone knew anyway from 'sources'. I know you're annoyed about it, that's your wont, but please can we at least start with the facts?

[quote user="james herriot lied"]

I wouldn't suggest that the action of these two sniggering Australian twats forced the poor lady into suicide: there are obviously a lot of things going on there. But if this hadn't happened, who knows - she might have held on, found help, averted the crisis. She's dead now, and would have been still alive were it not for the events of the last week.

[/quote]

Sigh. We can't even tell if X causes Y in most cases. To sepculate in a case like this is complete, utter, nonsense, a classic case of annoyance back-rationalised by moulding the facts. It is, actually, almost religious.

[quote user="james herriot lied"]

I'm not sure where bigotry really comes into it - do you imagine that the response would have been any less had it been a pair of sniggering British twats?

[/quote]

Yes, I do. The curse of an island. Man the barracks, lads, jonny foreigner's got one of ours. Pathetic.