Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Sarah Keir — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 18:29:39 GMT

I'm off to Iceland in a week to photograph the northern lights! Do you want me to report back on dog/cat status?

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Simon Neuhoff — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 17:08:08 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]

Well that's what surprised us, too, you'd expect vets to have a higher infection rate. But then, probably hygiene has been drummed into us well enough to be more protected that others? I found numbers for the UK ranging from 23-30% positive, while in Germany numbers were at 60% positive (both wikipedia). The number of assessed vetmums was 77 and after re-reading the whole thing I now have the exact figures: we ended up with 26,3% positives and 73,7 negatives. We all had been tested, it seems doctors in germany will do this regularly in high risk professions :-)

[/quote]

This seems very ironic. They are testing a "high risk population" and finding they have a low actual exposure - but therefore these people are more at risk of issues with their foetuses. They are getting the right answer for the wrong reasons.

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 17:05:47 GMT

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Simon Neuhoff — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 16:46:55 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]35-40% positives...[/quote]

Wow!! what do you lot do differently? Raw sausages? pink lamb? Cats' poo?

[/quote]

Maybe we'll have to look into the infectious potential of Sauerkraut? Seriously, I've asked my fellow vetmums if I got the figures right, will come back on it.

[/quote]

Ok, I did remember the figures right and we did find the result surprising given the fact that estimated 60% of Germany's population is positive. This incidence seems to be much lower in the UK (I found figures between 23-30%). Soooo, I always thought the English like their meat rare not us????

[/quote]

Is that correct? The incidence in a supposedly high risk population much lower than general? Also why would the general population have such an extremely high incidence? Anyone know what the UK figures are?

Edited to correct my typing - seem to have had some sort of finger spasm there!

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 15:33:53 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]35-40% positives...[/quote]

Wow!! what do you lot do differently? Raw sausages? pink lamb? Cats' poo?

[/quote]

Maybe we'll have to look into the infectious potential of Sauerkraut? Seriously, I've asked my fellow vetmums if I got the figures right, will come back on it.

[/quote]

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Utlendigur — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:33:31 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]From what I understand cat ownership was banned in Iceland[/quote]

Plenty of cats in Reykjavik, including a rather plump tabby that used to frequent the campsite and do the rounds of BBQs

There was a ban on keeping dogs in Reykjavik for many years (until late 1980s?), and I'm pretty sure Selfoss, in south Iceland, tried to introduce a ban about 10yrs ago, not generally a dog-friendly place, so maybe a mixup with that

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Malcolm Ness — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 12:29:48 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] Having a quiet day are we then Malcolm?![/quote]

I wish!

In fact I am getting bored while doing a pile of paperwork hence the occasional forays into vetsurgeon. Later I am off to help a colleague remove an odd nasal tumour then try and stabilise a proximal radial fracture in a lurcher that has had a close (and probably malicious) encounter with a shot gun.

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 12:09:01 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"] It is a legal requirement for them to wear a bell in the nesting season[/quote]

No problem, any self-respecting cat can move without ringing the bell.

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Bob Russell — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:56:25 GMT

Regulations were introduced requiring collars and tags to be worn by all cats. Failure to do so would render untagged cats liable to being picked up and PTS if not claimed within 7 days. It is a legal requirement for them to wear a bell in the nesting season and to be regularly wormed!

All sound Nordic practices!

Oh and yes a quiet day for me as my major, major dental has a BUN and Crea almost off the scale. We are going to treat that as best we can before we re-consider a G/A!

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 10:57:21 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]Just googled cats iceland and there are loads of pictures of cats in Iceland most of which have collars and tags so it looks like this might be an urban myth. Or a lying cat photographer. Or possibly that it is indeed Iceland the shop in which cat ownership is banned[/quote] Having a quiet day are we then Malcolm?! It could well be an urban myth but AFAIA, because there was no apparent benefit to the ban it was lifted or at least is widely ignored. Of course I could be talking a pile of male bovine dung. Must go and do some work now my operations list awaits me and my new grad. is off sick.

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Malcolm Ness — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 10:48:18 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]From what I understand cat ownership was banned in Iceland[/quote]

They kept eating the £3 prawn rings.........

[/quote]

Just googled cats iceland and there are loads of pictures of cats in Iceland most of which have collars and tags so it looks like this might be an urban myth. Or a lying cat photographer. Or possibly that it is indeed Iceland the shop in which cat ownership is banned

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 10:03:50 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]From what I understand cat ownership was banned in Iceland[/quote]

They kept eating the £3 prawn rings.........

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Simon Neuhoff — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 09:56:16 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

From what I understand cat ownership was banned in Iceland to reduce the incidence of toxoplasmosis but the result was that the rate was no different than anywhere else with a similar economy with or without cats. If there is a higher rate in Iceland it is therefore probably more due to eating raw fish, seal and walrus - not that I go for racial stereotypes of course!

[/quote]

Again highlights the differences between perception of the truth and evidence of the truth.

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 09:51:18 GMT

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 08:08:39 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]35-40% positives...[/quote]

Wow!! what do you lot do differently? Raw sausages? pink lamb? Cats' poo?

[/quote]

Maybe we'll have to look into the infectious potential of Sauerkraut? Seriously, I've asked my fellow vetmums if I got the figures right, will come back on it.

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Anthony Todd — Wed, 07 Nov 2012 20:16:11 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]35-40% positives...[/quote]

Wow!! what do you lot do differently? Raw sausages? pink lamb? Cats' poo?

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 07 Nov 2012 19:06:03 GMT

jogging my memory a bit here, but I think when we did a poll amongst German vetmums a couple of years back it was about 35-40% positives...

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Anthony Todd — Wed, 07 Nov 2012 18:47:44 GMT

[quote user="Rebecca Marchewka"]small, theoretical risk of infection [/quote]

From what I can see, scanning the literature the main risks, are raw animal meat, oysters [must give that 3rd dozen up...] and gardening and it varies from country to country, highest infection rates in countries where they eat a lot of rawish meat and do a lot of gardening.

Haven't checked infection via poultry, or at least positive chooks.

Where cats hunt mice and rodents the infection rate in them is highest.

Come on there's got to be a seropositive vet or vet nurse, as some doctors so warn against.....!

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Rebecca Marchewka — Wed, 07 Nov 2012 11:56:08 GMT

I tested negative several times during my prenancies. This was after approx 10 years of small animal practice and owning pet cats. I did speak to a consultant in the hospital about the risks (I had lots of other problems during the pregnancies unrelated to toxo) he said there was small, theoretical risk of infection due to contact with cats.

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Claire Godfrey — Wed, 07 Nov 2012 11:21:07 GMT

Currently 7 months pregnant, have not been tested and taking sensible precautions with gloves etc.

I too feel that if I am not positive already I am very unlikely to be exposed during the pregnancy having worked in catteries a lot when younger.

I know our nurse and another vet were tested 4 years ago and were both negative. Not really thought about asking to be tested, after 6 months of continuous nausea I will admit to not being completely on the ball about things! I assumed the midwives/doctors would have tested me if they felt appropriate.

9 weeks left, hopefully :-)

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

katie mountford — Tue, 06 Nov 2012 00:07:28 GMT

Another negative here after 6yrs in SA practice! I had to ask the midwife repeatedly to get tested the first time as they didn't seem that bothered, I don't think there is any chance I'll get repeat tests! Like previous posters I was surprised I was negative and so obviously whatever I've been doing im the last 6 years has worked! I've just been wearing gloves whilst handling cats and not doing the litter tray at home. To be honest I don't see that there is a lot of point getting tested-if I was positive its not like I'd be picking up poo without gloves on and I think the chances of me contracting toxo now are pretty unlikely given I haven't got it so far!

From a work point of view it was included in my risk assessment but they were pretty happy with just sensible precautions rather than anything else (and thats with a big company who I'd have thought had the legalities of risk assessments pretty much sorted!) I'd imagine that if you and your nurse agree and sign the risk assessment together and perhaps document the actual risk of contacting toxo from a veterinary environment then from a legal point of view you'd be ok? Perhaps the your nurse could take advise from her midwife or ask to speak to a doctor specialising in antenatal care as from personal experience the local GPs can be pretty useless with pregnancy related queries! Although you have to be aware that even the worry/stress of the potential problem could be considered a risk in itself!!!

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Liz w — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 21:16:34 GMT

I was negative too, after 7 years of mixed practice, and pet cats at home. I didn't see the point of getting tested for subsequent babies, just took sensible precautions.

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Anthony Todd — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 18:56:41 GMT

[quote user="karen jones"]carrying on lambing sheep during pregnancy[/quote]

Yes, it sounds as if the risk from cats is overstated.

Come on, there must be a Toxo positive vet, male or female out there!!!

I need more negative ones to report in too though please.

[unless someone can point me towards any surveys]

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

karen jones — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 18:27:43 GMT

At least women are tested now, my children are in their twenties and I was never offered a blood sample for toxo even though I worked in mixed practice. My gp didn't know anything about it and I ended up giving her some cpd about the life cycle and risk of toxo. I live in a rural area with lots of sheep. I have spoken to farmers wives who have been infected, one had an abortion as the baby had so many deformities and one of the others tells of giving birth with the midwife gowned up and masked and feeling like she had leprosey , her baby was fine and now has a lovely baby of her own. Infection there was thought to be from carrying on lambing sheep during pregnancy

Re: Toxoplasmosis and pregnant nurse

Siobhan Westbrook — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:26:59 GMT

I'm also in my first pregnancy, also tested negative. I'm in small animal practice now although had a mixed job before. I'm not changing what I'm doing (it's obviously worked until now!), so while I'm not avoiding cats, I'm also wearing gloves to clean up diarrhoea (as I would have done anyway...). I'll just keep asking for repeat blood tests, if one is then positive, I can go on antibiotics, and the baby should be no worse off. It's probably more of a risk if your nurse tested negative, then doesn't get re-tested at all through the rest of her pregnancy. In France, they retest every month for every negative woman (and you don't get your maternity pay if you miss a test!), as it's more common to be positive, so they get pretty paranoid about negatives. The incidence is presumably higher due to more raw/cured meats being eaten? I'm vegetarian so maybe that's helped me?! They advise not to eat salads unless you've washed them youself at home etc. (They stil don't advise getting rid of your cat though!). It's difficult though, because while your nurse may say she's happy now to carry on, if her baby is born with a problem, she may well feel differently. I'd start with asking her if she's had the blood test - if she's already positive it's going to be much easier!