Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

james herriot lied — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 09:08:31 GMT

Quite right, Arlo. But are we allowed to hear the graphic details?

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:25:28 GMT

There were a couple of inappropriate posts using the anon account here which I have deleted along with other posts which quoted them. The anon account is ONLY for seeking advice about matters you would rather remained anonymous. It is not for having a pop at other people's posts. Any anon posts which are not seeking advice will be deleted, so don't waste your breath!

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

Rachel Perry — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:23:07 GMT

My point is that the medical profession do not wait to be offered the information, they actively seek it out. Perhaps we can all learn lessons from this thread that we should be better at asking this of owners with un-neutered bitches?

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

Rachel Perry — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:15:26 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

if you're not told the bitch is or likely to be pregnant it is not your fault,

[/quote]

It's interesting that the medical profession do not take this approach. Last time I was prescribed a POM by my doctor I had the third degree...

"are you pregnant, or is there any way you could be pregnant?"

"NO"

"Well, how can you be sure?" Graphic details required

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

Busybee — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:18:05 GMT

We've also had two similar cases - one, a large dog that had a cruciate ligament repair done, then ended up giving birth a few weeks later; and another that presented for a UTI then needed a caesar the following week. In neither case did the owner think to mention the chance the dogs could be pregnant

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 09:03:27 GMT

As the others: a) if you're not told the bitch is or likely to be pregnant it is not your fault, b) as said there is no contraindication to 2 of the products and the third is highly unlikely to cause a problem, c) you have to make a clinical decision even if you knew she was pregnant you make a risk assessment I would have proceeded with that treatment even if I knew she was pregnant, d) I presume you have VDS cover (or equivalent) so what's the worry even in worst case scenario? I gave up worrying about this sort of thing a long time ago. Chill baby.

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

Rajat — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:54:39 GMT

Hi Emily

I can't see how they can reasonably blame you. I wouldn't put it past people trying though (- I was once blamed by an owner when I did CPCR on his dog...for doing CPCR... despite having signed consent and me having spoken to him while other members of the team were still doing CPR...human nature can be amazing!).

If I were you I would not worry at all. not one bit. We don't have a crystal ball and people have to take responsibility for their pets !

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

Utlendigur — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:47:11 GMT

I went to some CPD a couple of weeks ago and they said that there was very little systemic absorption of steroid (sorry corticosteroid - in case Evelyn is reading) from Canaural is minimal (Aurizon is a different matter). Frontline isn't systemic so can't see how hat would have any effect.

I had a case a few years ago - adult female entirely indoor cat fell out of window and fractured radius and ulna. Had xrays at OOH provider and repair with us (cat was a bloody hyperactive nightmare and managed to squeeze out of an indoor kennel first night home trashing he ESF). About a month later was seen at OOH provider again - aborting kittens -all dead. At no time had owner mentioned possibility of cat being pregnant - I hadn't asked because I assumed she would be spayed, she was indoor only and the owner had never mentioned she also had an uncastrated male! Owner then let cat get pregnant straight away again despite the fact that we were still trying to get the fracture to heal/needed to GA, xray etc

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

vs0u — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:02:14 GMT

I think milbemax and frontline are ok, and canaural does have steroid in but I guess if there was a systemic effect it would be abortion which seems to have not happened!

Maybe we should be asking them all if they are pregnant, but I never have! Maybe will start now though!

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:01:31 GMT

Relax Emily. It will be fine. The tiny weeny bit of steroid absorbed in the Canaural won't do any harm, and if it was going to cause abortion you'd know by now.

I use Frontline and Milbemax during pregnancy with no problems.

The owners have some responsibility too especially as you discussed reproductive issues.

Not on call? Have some wine.

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

Busybee — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:01:28 GMT

If the owner didn't tell you, you can't be expected to know! I guess the only other thing you could have done was to ask the owner straight if there was any chance of the dog being pregnant when you saw the swollen mammary glands. But that's hindsight for you, and me playing devil's advocate! I think if theoretically speaking there was a problem, and there's no mention in your notes from the first visit that the dog was pregnant, and we can assume that any 'reasonable person' would have made a note of this fact if mentioned, then the blame cannot be put on you.

I would speak to all manufacturers involved to find out what the risks are, present the owner with the information and subtly (or not so!) tell her that maybe next time, she should give a full history!

ps.milbemax and frontline are fine for pregnancy and lactation anyway. Canaural states that "The safety of the veterinary medicinal product has not been established during pregnancy and/or lactation. Use is not recommended during pregnancy and/or lactation" but I'm not sure how much would be absorbed systemically!

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

CatherineThomas — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:00:45 GMT

I don't see how you can be to blame, the owner should have mentioned it, particularly when you were discussing spaying her.

I once was treating a dog with awful demodex. She had 2 aludex baths and a course of high dose ceporex before the owner told me that she had been mated just before the first treatment. He reckoned it was an accidental mating of his bulldog bitch with another pure bulldog while in the park! They then refused to abort the puppies and she went on to have a whole litter of puppies also riddled with demodex but fortunately without any other congenital problems.

Re: Bichon 7 weeks pregnant

Louise6732 — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:57:09 GMT

If you weren't told by the owner, even when prompted about the mammary tissue then don't worry. We can't ask every owner with an entire bitch is there a chance the bitch is pregnant before we prescribe meds.

Very similar thing happened to me about a year ago, saw a dog for skin problems, asked if was on any other meds, O' said no, gave dex inj (dexadresson) and a few weeks later O' called to say how would she know if the dog was coming into labour as she thinks she is pregnant! I asked her if she thought this at the time of consult, and she said yes! I told her it was very important to let us know these things, especially given I had injected her dog with dex! All was well and dog not pregnant after all, but just goes to show even obvious things aren't brought up by O's.

Check the data sheets re the drugs you have used, in case she ends up pregnant at least the O' knows what might happen

Louise