Challenging day

Re: Challenging day

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 13:22:09 GMT

[quote user="patrick murphy"]

how many staff? I'm still working through my tub table issues.

[/quote]

I've assessed the need and we are only small. We have an 'approved' first aid kit and an accident book that complies with the data protection act. No trained first aiders. Kits in vets cars too.

Re: Challenging day

patrick murphy — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 12:36:46 GMT

how many staff? I'm still working through my tub table issues.

Re: Challenging day

patrick murphy — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 12:34:31 GMT

and you need a first aid kit?

Re: Challenging day

patrick murphy — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 12:34:07 GMT

a definite, and recent NO

Re: Challenging day

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 10:56:36 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]The A&E department is a 3 minute walk and a 90 second run[/quote]

I bet it takes longer if you are carrying somebody that is having a heart attack.

[/quote]

That is why:

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]They even have cardiac arrest alarms in the corridor.[/quote]

Scrambles a crash team and sets off an audible alarm.

Re: Challenging day

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 09:33:03 GMT

Micheal One of my clients is a retired human A& E specialist She toldme that (by law ) even the A&E dept has tohave a trained first aider She was qualified todealwith the consequences of a train derailment or plane crash-but the official first aider had todeal with a staff member whohad a cut finger As you said-youcouldn't make it up

Wynne

Re: Challenging day

Malcolm Ness — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 09:32:11 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]The A&E department is a 3 minute walk and a 90 second run[/quote]

I bet it takes longer if you are carrying somebody that is having a heart attack.

Re: Challenging day

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:18:20 GMT

the seat back was tipped back as far as it would go (large 4x4) so she was in a shallow V shape really....it was more access than position that was the problem.

Re: Challenging day

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:06:53 GMT

Just spoken to one of my clients who is a paramedic, he said that outside London most first response units are not qualified para-medics and are not therefore able to give medication which may explain things (and even in London a lot of them weren't before the Olympic games when it became regulatory), although they carry defibrillators that may not be a lot of use for someone in asystole. he was however amazed at the CPR in a sitting position.

Re: Challenging day

Alan Tevendale — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:45:36 GMT

Interestingly my father, now retired, was a consultant ENT surgeon who also ran first aid courses all over Scotland. Including courses for advanced first aid examiners. As a result he really knew his stuff on first aid. Many a time however he used to complain of doctors who would do more harm than good at trying to do first aid.

Re: Challenging day

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:20:57 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Does a practice full of vets not count as first aiders? Frankly if anybody expects me to defer to somebody with a couple of days training they can take a hike.

[/quote]

My mother works in a pathology lab in a human hospital. The department has 4 consultants. The A&E department is a 3 minute walk and a 90 second run. They even have cardiac arrest alarms in the corridor.

Yet they have a number of the technicians as trained first aiders.

You couldn't make it up.

Re: Challenging day

Anthony Dennison — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 17:38:57 GMT

Think you're covered on that base there! I was never allowed to faint - if I ever looked even remotley pale whereever I was seeing practice the nurse would shoo me out to sit down saying something along the lines of 'You're too big to catch if you faint, you'll squash me!'

Re: Challenging day

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:59:57 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Who does a health and safety induction the first day a work experience student arrives? Ours consists of: here's the first aid box, here's the fire door, if someone shouts fire get out and wait in the car park. Is there any more to say?

[/quote]

Don't be daft around the animals and let yourself get bitten?

[/quote]Actually I get them all to sign a disclaimer before they come elaborating the risk of zoonosis, bites and scratches, noxious substances, anaesthetic agents, radiation, sharps etc etc, even the risk of fainting at the sight or smells of body fluids and offensive odours and banging their heads. Doesn't relieve me of my responsibility under the H&S regulations but they and a parent/guardian have to sign or they spend the week standing in the corner. The product of bitter experience.

Re: Challenging day

Anthony Dennison — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:49:05 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[/quote]

Don't be daft around the animals and let yourself get bitten?

Re: Challenging day

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:17:51 GMT

Re: Challenging day

karen jones — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:58:35 GMT

[quote user="tess"]

What do people think of the obligatory first aid boxes? Most people seem to reach for the animal bandaging as the contents of the boxes seem largely useless!

[/quote]All those inspectors from PSS to nurse trainers and work experience people all ask to see it. Not sure anyone has asked to look in it. The only thing we've ever used from it is the occasional plaster

Re: Challenging day

tess — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:55:49 GMT

What do people think of the obligatory first aid boxes? Most people seem to reach for the animal bandaging as the contents of the boxes seem largely useless!

Re: Challenging day

karen jones — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:52:54 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Does a practice full of vets not count as first aiders? Frankly if anybody expects me to defer to somebody with a couple of days training they can take a hike.

[/quote]

No, even the ambulance service have to send some of their paramedics and technicians to do first aid course because someone has to do "first aid at work " course. Bonkers world but thats the regulation. You have to have a qualified first aider if you have over a certain number of staff . Its a 4 day initial course by 2 day refresher ever 3 years. Practising on the "annie" dummies is useful every 3 years.This is the world of cover your backs

Re: Challenging day

Mark Holmes — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:00:26 GMT

Does a practice full of vets not count as first aiders? Frankly if anybody expects me to defer to somebody with a couple of days training they can take a hike.

Re: Challenging day

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:29:37 GMT

Well done Gillian You did all you could

Re: Challenging day

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:19:53 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]A friend of mine had a work experience student drop dead on the premises[/quote]

Holy hell. That's just made every "bad work day" I've ever had feel completely insignificant.

[/quote]And he had an assistant commit suicide in the practice flat - talk of being a bad luck magnet! As suggested H&S took a lot of interest in these cases and the consequences of not having everything in order like accident book, established protocols and qualified first aider etc are a lot worse than if you just fail a routine check. Food for thought. We have a qualified first aider but she is not on duty at all times, my line of: 'first aid - I could give last aid if I had to', even if it is true, may not go down too well under the circumstances. It still beggars belief that someone with a modicum of intelligence couldn't perform CPR though - heck, even Vinnie Jones can do it!

Re: Challenging day

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:58:02 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]I've been wondering as well why they wouldn't move someone into an easier position for CPR, just because "people might see"?[/quote]

don't quote me on that - it was a very difficult situation and that was the impression she gave me but there may have been other factors involved.....

Re: Challenging day

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:51:00 GMT

[quote user="karen jones"]My husband is a paramedic and I am sure would have been grateful for the help and extra pair of hands[/quote]

The paramedic was very grateful - and also seemed very surprised that I was happy to help with the cardiac compressions. The rest of the staff (nurses and receptionists) said they wouldn't have been able to do it.

We don't have official first aiders but the nurses do it as part of their nurse training.

Re: Challenging day

James Laidlaw — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:20:37 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]A friend of mine had a work experience student drop dead on the premises[/quote]

Holy hell. That's just made every "bad work day" I've ever had feel completely insignificant.

I've been wondering as well why they wouldn't move someone into an easier position for CPR, just because "people might see"? I'd hope that I got moved if I needed such a procedure, if it meant it was easier to perform, regardless of who sees!

Re: Challenging day

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 09:20:22 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I certainly wouldn't want to be a paramedic- trying to do everything you can under such difficult circumstances must be awful [/quote] I feel sure that they have to normalise these things the same as we do, it is an (often more than) everyday occurrence for them so they have to move on. I'd just be be happy it wasn't one of my clients on the practice premises, at least you don't have to go through the hoop of a H&S investigation. A friend of mine had a work experience student drop dead on the premises and the aftermath was quite 'demanding'. Incidentally does everyone have an official first aider on the staff at all times?