'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Virginia Campbell — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 12:28:59 GMT

[quote user="Luke Edwards"]If the clients really want refferal then refer them, but warn them "the refferal vets will probably want a large deposit upfront". Tell the refferal practice that you said this when you contact them[/quote]

This and perhaps fax the notes with the lots of the notes stroked out with a big black marker and "NOTES REGARDING FINANCIAL HISTORY HAVE BEEN DELETED" written across the bottom. Not illegal surely?

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Bob Russell — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:21:29 GMT

True we have been too soft in the past. With shrinking margins and stiffer competition there is less of a buffer to absorb this than in the past.

It comes over sometimes as being money orientated but if people want to pay less (such a internet medicines) this has to be balanced with a much tighter control on bad debts.

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

bob lehner — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:12:54 GMT

Yes indeed - and as someone else pointed out I think, some private medical places require full payment for treatment up front if not insured. Even if you book your car into Kwik Fit for an MOT you pay in advance.

I think vets historically have been far too soft on this issue.

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Clive Ansell — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 20:16:19 GMT

Not infallible at all. This discussion has been had before, but the only logical way forward is advance payment, pre credit scoring the client, or taking a credit card swipe as hotels and car hire companies do.

Within the last month I had a client that presented with a sick elderly CKCS, admitted for investigation, turned out to be a closed pyometra (speyed ATO) . Despite advising the clients prior to surgery by telephone that it would be c£600 and their agreement and consent to proceed, and the final bill being slightly less, they announced on discharge "Oh by the way we are on benefits and have on money, here's £20 and can you send the bill to the PDSA?". no further payments and check up appointments not kept.

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

bob lehner — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 18:55:06 GMT

[

[quote user="Mike Martin"]

[quote user="bob lehner"]I would hazard a guess that most referral centres are quite street-wise enough to check out the financial status of any uninsured client arriving on their doorstep before embarking on expensive procedures.[/quote]

How? Beyond being forewarned in some way by the referring vet.

[/quote]

Well, I guess by such things as getting proof of current address (e.g. current utility bill) when first registering, giving accurate written estimate of fees at the outset, giving your written terms of business, getting signed consent form which also details payment requirements, getting a deposit before starting any treatment - possibly taking credit card details in advance (hotels do this before you even arrive - tho' I've not met a vet practice that does it) - and then just general 'gut feeling' on client's credit-worthiness/likelihood of paying. Not infallible of course, but a start.

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Bob Russell — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:07:33 GMT

Sliding well and truly off topic!

A practice's reputation can be made or broken on how it handles euthanasia. I assume the pet is a family member and treat the owners as truly bereaved.

I would expect the recovery period to be much shorter than for loss of a person, not least because pets have a shorter lifespan so loss is expected. Sometimes the 'mourning' becomes pathological but I would bet this happens where there are already underlying depression issues.

I don't normally refer an owner to a support service as many client feel this is over the top but there are occasions where extra help can be invaluable. We get a lot of letters of thanks!

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Louise6732 — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:09:49 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]That said I'm owed £105 from someone whom I trust but accidentally undercharged and was going to collect payment when they collected the ashes. [/quote] Sorry to quote my own post. Ye of little faith they called and paid yesterday but I'm worried as to their sanity. The dog was clearly a child substitute and each accused the other of being the most emotional but they were as bad as each other. I expect owners to get upset but these two were hysterical and wailing, if they'd had a grave to throw themselves in or could have committed Sati I feel they would and the wife turned into a child holding the dog like a treasured toy screaming, 'I've killed him, Oh my God what have I done'. She's since admitted to carrying the ashes with her wherever she goes and made a shrine of its possessions.

[/quote]

Martin, I'm sure this is meant as tongue in cheek rather than actually mocking these clients?

Have you got anyone around you who does pet berevement counselling? We are extremely fortunate to have a receptionist who is qualified to do this and we don't charge for this service, you often find there are many many more things happening in cleints lives than just the death of their pet, eg death of other family members very recently etc. Some people might find this service a bit naff, but we have had nothing but positive feedback from every single one of our clients who've used the service.

The Blue Cross also have a support service:

http://www.bluecross.org.uk/1742/pet-loss.html

Louise

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

An On MRCVS — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 09:25:54 GMT

Original anon here

Well, I did refer - but only on for an initial consult and assessment. I also checked - twice and very loudly - the terms and conditions of payment, including asking the rhetorical question 'you don't do direct claims, do you' and making sure payment was required at the time of initial consult and that credit was not extended. If after the initial assessment the owners decide to go ahead, it will be something which is likely to be booked back in, so I'll probably ask again about insurance procedures.

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Mike Martin — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 09:16:53 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]The dog was clearly a child substitute and each accused the other of being the most emotional but they were as bad as each other. I expect owners to get upset but these two were hysterical and wailing,[/quote]

Its becoming an every day occurrence in referral practice.

Leaving me with mixed emotions

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Mike Martin — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 09:08:19 GMT

How? Beyond being forewarned in some way by the referring vet.

The greatest source of debt for me is chasing direct insurance claims - not paid to us, - or promises not kept.

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Bob Russell — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 09:06:16 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

In a previous practice we had this situation but the practice manager was married to a Policeman. It was considered to be deception and a little visit from the boys in blue was all it took for a very irate, foul mouthed ex-client to storm into the waiting room with a fist full of cash to pay the bill.

Strangely the threat to sue us was never followed through!

[/quote] Hmmm...I wonder what the powers that be would make of that if they knew, as satisfying as it may seem to us, it rings a bit of wasting police time as it is in effect being done as a favour rather than going through appropriate channels.

[/quote]

Why should they be bothered? It turned out this particular lady had committed fraud before and had actually convinced visitors that 'mummy wasn't home' when they arrived to try to recover money. She had no children!

It was more than a few years ago but some people are parasites and it never does any harm to put them under pressure.

Not really wasting Police time IMO.

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Luke Edwards — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 00:43:19 GMT

With regard to ashes, there is an huge trend now for horse owners to request indvidual cremation and ashes back. When I say ashes back I mean a 18" x 18"x18" mahogany style box with a brass plate on the top with the (wrong) name engraved on it. The whole thing weighs like, 40kg and some clients are physically unable to pick it up. Makes a good foot-stool but what the hell else do you do with it? Crazy.

The other crazy aspect of this is the cost. A hypothetical invoice from us often goes like this:-

Visit fee - £ 25

Exam poorly horse and advise euthanasia -£25

Shoot horse -£20

Arrange collection body and ashes back -£500

Which is a sad state of affairs for a professional person

Luke

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:26:39 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]She's since admitted to carrying the ashes with her wherever she goes and made a shrine of its possessions. [/quote]

Possibly mention this to her? For some reason we have leaflets for it in most of our branches...

http://www.memorial-diamonds.com/

[/quote] I view this sort of thing as exploitation of people's emotions at a time when they should be encouraged to view life in a more realistic light, a bit like cloning pets.

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Anthony Dennison — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:58:56 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]She's since admitted to carrying the ashes with her wherever she goes and made a shrine of its possessions. [/quote]

Possibly mention this to her? For some reason we have leaflets for it in most of our branches...

http://www.memorial-diamonds.com/

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:56:43 GMT

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

patrick murphy — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:24:45 GMT

we are a bit soft and don't, but I think we only have 2 boxes that I can think of that have been around for a while in many years

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:48:44 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Strangely the threat to sue us was never followed through!

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:32:36 GMT

The smiley says it all

Wynne

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:08:35 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Anybody know of a policeman looking for a wife?

Wynne

[/quote]

Wynne, soliciting a police officer? What has the profession come to?!

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:46:51 GMT

Anybody know of a policeman looking for a wife?

Wynne

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

bob lehner — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:37:42 GMT

I would hazard a guess that most referral centres are quite street-wise enough to check out the financial status of any uninsured client arriving on their doorstep before embarking on expensive procedures.

*(Interestingly, years ago, if a practice referred a client to a specialist, the standard and accepted procedure was for the specialist to send his/her bill to the referring practitioner to pay and then recover from the client ... difficult to believe but that's how it was).

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Bob Russell — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:37:06 GMT

Strangely the threat to sue us was never followed through!

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:23:28 GMT

Well said Malcolm-now what about that law being rigidly enforced Come to that could the referring veterinary surgeon also be liable for prosecution, and for the debt because they were the ones requesting treatment? I can fully understand the practice principal being unwilling/unable to accept financial responsibility

Wynne

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Malcolm Ness — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:32:58 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"] but owners wanted referral and "everything done" but then informed us that they had no money at all, and couldn't pay for even the emergency treatment and xray we had done[/quote]

If they consulted the referral vet knowing that a fee was payable and knowing that they did not have the funds to pay for even the consultation then that is illegal - "Gaining goods and services by deception."

Re: 'Slow' paying client wanting referral

Luke Edwards — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:17:20 GMT

Utlendigur,

You are quite right right the old guides did state that it was not ethical to refer on bad debtors to another practice. The newer versions do not. The old guides did seem so much more specific ... The guides may have changed but I doubt the underlying ethics have. If the clients really want refferal then refer them, but warn them "the refferal vets will probably want a large deposit upfront". Tell the refferal practice that you said this when you contact them. Any refferal practice taking on an unknown, uninsured client is well within their rights to ask for a deposit in my opinion (that what we do). There is no refusal to treat the case, just a request that a deposit will be required before any work is undertaken.

Luke