Call for ban on exotics

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:30:39 GMT

The reason why the sale of tortoises was made illegal was the horrific death toll during and shortly after importation

Wynne

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 04 Sep 2012 15:21:42 GMT

Ever mindful of the row that erupted following the hijacking of threads by other's criticising the OP's ability when it was not the subject of the post I thought best to comment on this thread re. 2 current threads with enquiries for information on treating Coaties and Sugar Gliders. What the heck is the sane world coming to if people in the UK are keeping these as pets?, Sugar Gliders are one of the most traded of illegally captured wild animals in the world. Maybe the OP's have a client like I do, who rescues exotic species from idiots who keep them in private collections, in which case all is forgiven but if these are private collectors shouldn't we be discouraging them rather than requesting information on how to treat them? Seeing the problems my client has trying to pick up the pieces It makes my blood boil.

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Mark Holmes — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:06:22 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]The idea isn't necessarily a bad one, it's a shame it's backed up by utter rubbish - assuming 75% of reptiles die within 1yr, really? Is there any basis to this magical figure, certainly doesn't fit with the reality that we see and no reference or evidence provided to support their assumption.[/quote]

I thought it was interesting that VT had reported that the 75% came from a 'new study', which I thought inflated the importance of the statistic to a level it didn't really deserve. It seemed to me that the figures were back-of-a-fag-packet stuff.

That said, the 75% figure wasn't devoid of references in the article itself - I just didn't repeat them in the short news piece I wrote about it. So here they are:

Pet reptile population in UK homes (source PFMA) = 700,000 in 2009, 850,000 in 2010 and 800,000 in 2011.
Data from animal trade regulators indicates 320,000 reptiles imported into the UK each year from 2006-2011 (source DEFRA)
25% illegal trade should be factored in (Karesh et al, 2007)
Approx 300,000 reptiles bred in the UK for the pet trade annually from 2006-2012. Federation of British Herpetologists and teh Reptile and Pet Trade Association

Total 700,000 reptiles entering the system each year, yet pet reptile population remains static at around 700-800K. Hence the article's conclusion.

[/quote]

ACtually it doesn't suprise me at all, the number of reptiles the herpy shops stock and presumably sell, relative to the number seen locally. There are alot of reptiles never visiting a vets. We used to have somebody who took the local reptiles and would see 2-3 a day which did not seem many since she drew from most of the North East.

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:51:02 GMT

That said, the 75% figure wasn't devoid of references in the article itself - I just didn't repeat them in the short news piece I wrote about it. So here they are:

Pet reptile population in UK homes (source PFMA) = 700,000 in 2009, 850,000 in 2010 and 800,000 in 2011.
Data from animal trade regulators indicates 320,000 reptiles imported into the UK each year from 2006-2011 (source DEFRA)
25% illegal trade should be factored in (Karesh et al, 2007)
Approx 300,000 reptiles bred in the UK for the pet trade annually from 2006-2012. Federation of British Herpetologists and teh Reptile and Pet Trade Association

Total 700,000 reptiles entering the system each year, yet pet reptile population remains static at around 700-800K. Hence the article's conclusion.

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:02:38 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]....our most exotic client was a pole dancer and only had dogs as pets. Was offered a pole dance as part payment but as I prefer to remain surgically intact decided my wife would not approve.[/quote] I had an 'exotic' dancer client who used a python or some such large constrictor snake as part of her routine in the (not very successful) attempt to retain her modesty!! She never actually brought the snake to be treated but did bring her cat more frequently than was probably necessary and made rather unsubtle attempts to seduce me including holding it very close to her cleavage. In the end she asked me round for dinner and said 'don't worry it will be just you, me and my pussy'. I sincerely believe she meant her cat but I nonetheless declined the invitation. (Apologies to those who have read this story before).

Re: Call for ban on exotics

bob lehner — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:42:01 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]I always thought that your IQ was inversely proportional to the size of your TV, or more accurately inversely proportional to TV:House size ratio[/quote]

Well that's the best news I've had all day - I've got a pretty big house and just one very, very, very small TV. My Missus keeps saying we should get a bigger one - but I'm far too bright to fall for that one.

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:10:24 GMT

Bob Tut tut tut-you-a veterinary surgeon inflicting indigestion on an animal-what happened to your oath?

Wynne

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Bob Russell — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:12:57 GMT

[quote user="Lorna McHardy"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

No! My wife's sister is my sister-in-law and it is her husband (no relative other than mistake of marriage - hers not mine!) that is wasting the earths resources by existing.

[/quote]

Ok, now I'm starting to get curious :0) What's he done, for goodness' sake?

[/quote]

A sub-human primate of the worst kind and it has taken several trips to the courts to sort him out. Any lion or leopard would have severe indigestion but I freely admit I would pay good money to see him enter the Colosseum for my entertainment!

He does not however have any pets so perhaps not an ideal topic of discussion on vetsurgeon!

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Lorna McHardy — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 13:19:41 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

No! My wife's sister is my sister-in-law and it is her husband (no relative other than mistake of marriage - hers not mine!) that is wasting the earths resources by existing.

[/quote]

Ok, now I'm starting to get curious :0) What's he done, for goodness' sake?

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Mark Holmes — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 13:15:05 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

I have a formula which is that the degree of exoticness of a pet is in indirect proportion to the owner's IQ. Seeing the problems I see with the animals my client rescues from illegal imports and dodgy collections I'd say ban 'em all.

[/quote]

I always thought that your IQ was inversely proportional to the size of your TV, or more accurately inversely proportional to TV:House size ratio

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Bob Russell — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 13:10:13 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I was hoping to send my sister-in-laws husband out to be used as bait for the missing Lion[/quote] Hold on - isn't your sister-in-law's husband your brother?

[/quote]

No! My wife's sister is my sister-in-law and it is her husband (no relative other than mistake of marriage - hers not mine!) that is wasting the earths resources by existing.

Inverse proportion of IQ and 'exoticness' often does apply although our most exotic client was a pole dancer and only had dogs as pets. Was offered a pole dance as part payment but as I prefer to remain surgically intact decided my wife would not approve.

A ban on keeping exotics will never happen and sadly I suspect tighter controls will not happen either!

Re: Call for ban on exotics

serena holmes — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:57:22 GMT

Wow, appalled by this. Basically a Ban could save a huge amount of reptile suffering, so I'm in.

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:28:22 GMT

Seriously Our exotics experts are as Micheal said,only likely to see the best owners-but an all out ban is OTT I would support a licensing system

Wynne

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Mark Rowland — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 11:04:59 GMT

But of course keepers of other animals never allow their animals to suffer from neglect, You never see obese dogs, or dogs with horrendous gingivitis and rotten teeth or flea ridden cats or lame sheep or wormy horses in the field.

oh wait, thats my daughters pink sunglasses I was wearing, better put on my dark ones..... ah thats better.

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:51:08 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I was hoping to send my sister-in-laws husband out to be used as bait for the missing Lion[/quote] Hold on - isn't your sister-in-law's husband your brother?

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Bob Russell — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:50:22 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]Whoops missed this, had a day off yest so went off for a spot of lion watching in Essex....... no luck there[/quote]

Latest information is that it isn't a lion at all - being Essex, it is in fact a Snow Leopard with a spray tan and nail extensions!

[/quote]

Do Snow Leopards eat good for nothing, ratbag, scum brothers-in-law?

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Malcolm Ness — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:35:13 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]Whoops missed this, had a day off yest so went off for a spot of lion watching in Essex....... no luck there[/quote]

Latest information is that it isn't a lion at all - being Essex, it is in fact a Snow Leopard with a spray tan and nail extensions!

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Bob Russell — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:19:09 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

Whoops missed this, had a day off yest so went off for a spot of lion watching in Essex....... no luck there.

I suppose theres a short answer and a long answer to this but as Ive got a really busy day today Im going to have to go for the short answer which is........

Ban it all, I could do with a rest.

[/quote]

I was hoping to send my sister-in-laws husband out to be used as bait for the missing Lion as he lives there and is a waste of oxygen. He might have served some purpose if he became lunch for the elusive 'escapee'.

There should be stricter licencing requirements for suppliers of exotic species to ensure more education for purchasers. A cooling off period should also be introduced prior to supply.

Private sales are difficult to control so possibly the best point of contact is where food is obtained. Perhaps some compulsory training for suppliers of live foods including management tips would help. I have ordered live food for our Tarantulas for years and have always thought it would be a good opportunity for educational leaflets etc to be supplied (even an advertising opportunity!).

Education rather than bans will reduce the problems but there are always those that cannot be educated!

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Mark Rowland — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:03:50 GMT

Whoops missed this, had a day off yest so went off for a spot of lion watching in Essex....... no luck there.

I suppose theres a short answer and a long answer to this but as Ive got a really busy day today Im going to have to go for the short answer which is........

Ban it all, I could do with a rest.

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Nicola Lawlor — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 21:55:04 GMT

I think that it would be a shame for those people who really do care for them well if they were no longer able to own exotics, but I agree with the above statement about better regulation regarding sale and ownership of these pets. People who want to own an exotic should have to obtain some sort of licence/permit to own them. Such a permit should only be issued when it can be proven that the person who will take ownership is properly informed about the care of the particular species s/he is going to own. There should be restrictions on selling on, or rehoming these animal only to other people with the appropriate permission.

I agree the 75% death rate figure may be a bit sensationalist but many people who go out and buy these animals on a whim do not care for them properly and then do not seek help at all when things go wrong. It would be near impossible to get an accurate figure for the death rate each year.

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 21:05:33 GMT

I bet there is a huge percentage of owned 'exotics' out there that the owners have in awful conditions and would never dream of taking to see a vet. I imagine Mark and Marie see the top few percentage of keen, clued up owners.

(when I was a child we had rabbits, but I don't remember ever taking one to the vet, if sick it either got better or knocked over the head, we took one guinea pig once and it was dead by the time we got home!)

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Marie Kubiak — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 20:55:51 GMT

The idea isn't necessarily a bad one, it's a shame it's backed up by utter rubbish - assuming 75% of reptiles die within 1yr, really? Is there any basis to this magical figure, certainly doesn't fit with the reality that we see and no reference or evidence provided to support their assumption.

Despite the distorted image and slightly different agenda of those in the article, I'm keen for some kind of restrictions- limitations or even banning sales of wild caught animals, and nominal requirements for captive bred animals to prevent impulse purchases and ensure husbandry requirements were met. I'd support these measures for cats and dogs as well if that would ever be taken seriously but people tend to focus on reptiles for some reason. As an aside I see far more mistreated rabbits than I do herps but no-one seems fussed about this as it doesn't make for as good headlines.

Marie

Re: Call for ban on exotics

Mark Holmes — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 19:34:43 GMT

I would certainly support licensing which made it much, much more difficult to obtain exotics, I think it's crazy that if I choose to own an Outer Mongolian Handbag Lizard I can.