Advertising POM-V to the public

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Bob Russell — Mon, 30 Jul 2012 09:06:36 GMT

Just remember to put a banner at the bottom saying 'Available without prescription on Amazon!'.

Perhaps the VMD needs a little rethink on priorities.

As the VMD are 80% funded by the pharmaceutical industry my cynical streak tells me the pressure is to ease advertising of POM's not tighten up on it. I am more than happy to go down this route as it will be possible to encourage people to use better flea and worming products rather than the names everyone knows!

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

J G Wray — Mon, 30 Jul 2012 07:22:46 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Although the VMD rules were devised to regulate how manufacturers advertise, they seem to apply to POM-Vs, not who is advertising them. So I would say that vets are no more allowed to advertise POM-Vs to the public than manufacturers.[/quote]

As I mentioned VMD are looking at this at the moment and whether your interpretation of the rules is accurate will become a bit clearer over time.

I have always been struck by the absence of some manufacturers adverts from this site, preferring instead more subtle value added inducements.

As things are today and have been since the CC recommendations were put in place I advertise POM-Vs and their price directly to the public in my waiting room. If this is allowed then developing the regulatory effect of this on our website and in conjunction with our webshop and our imprimatur looks, to me like a logical and reasonable next step, now the pharmacies have established themselves. This is not an attempt to compete with internet pharmacy, but an intention to drive the sale of services led by product.

JGW

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:13:17 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]I don't think what you see on here counts at all, similar to ads in vet press. The primary and intended audience is overwhelmingly vets, so I think it is ott to use this website as an example, but you do raise an interesting question. When is information about a condition simply that and when is it advertising the products involved?[/quote]

You are only allowed to advertise POM-Vs to veterinary surgeons and nurses, pharmacists and professional keepers of animals, through outlets that are primarily targeted at those audiences. Of course, people other than veterinary surgeons read this site, or may flick through Vet Times, or open some junk mail. The point is only whether the communication was clearly aimed at the correct audience.

Manufacturers may advertise information about a condition. From memory, it should not contain brand names of any of the products used to treat the condition, but may refer to the active ingredients, provided it refers to all the possible actives that could be used. Such advertising may, at the foot, carry the credit: This information is provided to you by xxxx makes of xxxx.

The aim of this, as I understand it, was to give manufacturers some incentive to provide owners with useful information.

Although the VMD rules were devised to regulate how manufacturers advertise, they seem to apply to POM-Vs, not who is advertising them. So I would say that vets are no more allowed to advertise POM-Vs to the public than manufacturers.

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Niall Taylor — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:59:02 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"] I advertise what POMs I've sold in the last quarter with their prices, in the waiting room, and, keen as I am to comply, I thought about putting this information on the website. I could even highlight these prices and products and their associated services.[/quote]

Excellent Mr W - I like the cut of your wossname

Niall

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Mark Holmes — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 17:06:57 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]To me there is a difference between a poster saying "USE RIMADYL" and "OUR RIMADYL COSTS" (Other NSAIDS are available)[/quote]

Yup, I've seen that. So, does it count as advertising to the public if these prices are associated with our services and the claims we will be making for these services to ensure that clients can have confidence in their pet tolerating the product, that it is reliable and convenient, all claims made in the Cimalgex advert here ( as seen by staffers at BVA/RCVS etc)? Our imprimatur would be explicit.

JGW

[/quote]

I don't think what you see on here counts at all, similar to ads in vet press. The primary and intended audience is overwhelmingly vets, so I think it is ott to use this website as an example, but you do raise an interesting question. When is information about a condition simply that and when is it advertising the products involved?

I think, and I'm no authority at all, in fact this is just my bullshit opinion but to me a notice a sign in the practice or banner on your website saying arthritis and rimadyl when the primary audience is overwhelmingly clients would be considered an ad. A page discussing the impact and relevance of arthritis, what could be done about it and what products are used could be considered information or indeed advertising our services which we are allowed to do. Its probably a grey area, there is a whole industry involved in exploiting legal grey areas.

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 16:48:09 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] I got a bollocking from Stig of the dump when I 'recycled' a load of old practice newsletters and veterinary journals at the local household waste tip, he actually climbed in the skip and gave them back to me! [/quote]

Or, sell them to your wife since they are educational material. Now they belong to your wife, if she wants to throw them out they are household waste.

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 16:43:50 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]So, does it count as advertising to the public if these prices are associated with our services and the claims we will be making for these services to ensure that clients can have confidence in their pet tolerating the product, that it is reliable and convenient, all claims made in the Cimalgex advert here ( as seen by staffers at BVA/RCVS etc)? [/quote]

Yes.

But I'm not in charge.

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 16:33:46 GMT

Try a considerably larger bribe, whoops, sorry, gratuity next time.

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:45:35 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Businesses are not supposed to recycle? Anyway I don't own a business ...they are household waste.[/quote] I got a bollocking from Stig of the dump when I 'recycled' a load of old practice newsletters and veterinary journals at the local household waste tip, he actually climbed in the skip and gave them back to me! But when I had a load of old waiting room chairs he decided I could leave them because he could probably 'recycle' them himself. We have to concede that strictly speaking it is illegal to dispose of trade waste at a household waste site but the trick is to go at the weekend when its busy so you blend in with the householders or 5 minutes before they're due to close because they can't be bothered checking. However I still have to pay London Borough of Hillingdon a princely sum to dispose of my 'office' waste even though it goes in the same bins as the supposedly household waste from the surgery flat. I suppose they have to draw a line somewhere or it would get out of control.

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

J G Wray — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:18:11 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]To me there is a difference between a poster saying "USE RIMADYL" and "OUR RIMADYL COSTS" (Other NSAIDS are available)[/quote]

JGW

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Mark Holmes — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:10:13 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

Well, if it's just a matter of common sense then why can't I put these adverts on my practice website and webshop, obviously with a rider of information for vets/nurses etc?

I advertise what POMs I've sold in the last quarter with their prices, in the waiting room, and, keen as I am to comply, I thought about putting this information on the website. I could even highlight these prices and products and their associated services.

JGW

[/quote]

I think you probably can, look at what online dispensarys display.

www.petdispensary.co.uk

They don't seem to promote a product but give prices of those products.

To me there is a difference between a poster saying "USE RIMADYL" and "OUR RIMADYL COSTS" (Other NSAIDS are available)

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

J G Wray — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:57:28 GMT

Well, if it's just a matter of common sense then why can't I put these adverts on my practice website and webshop, obviously with a rider of information for vets/nurses etc?

JGW

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Bob Russell — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:32:31 GMT

Something from Dechra I think!

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:25:34 GMT

You know, after weeks of that yorkie I still can't remember for 30 seconds what product it's advertising.

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Mark Holmes — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:19:47 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Quiet day? The same way you prevent them from picking up a copy of the vet record, in practice or finding a vet times at the recycling centre.[/quote] Clearly I'm having a quiet day as well but just to play devil's advocate: you should not be disposing of your old vet records at the recycling centre, strictly speaking they're trade waste!

[/quote]

Businesses are not supposed to recycle? Anyway I don't own a business ...they are household waste.

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Bob Russell — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:11:57 GMT

Manky teeth day here so spinning yorkies are an improvement!

Is the term 'get a life' appropriate?

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:02:42 GMT

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:00:06 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]How do you prevent forum members, non-MsRCVS, from seeing spinning Yorkies and the like?[/quote] How do you stop non MRCVSs reading Vet Times, Vet record etc, Come to think of it what about POM-V adverts in Veterinary Nursing which goes straight to the nurses qualified or not? So long as they're not emblazoned on buses and in women's magazines (OK men's as well so as not to appear sexist) I believe it is called the application of common sense.

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Mark Holmes — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 13:51:48 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]With the gentleman posing the question I smell a heffalump trap[/quote]

How do you prevent forum members, non-MsRCVS, from seeing spinning Yorkies and the like?

JGW

[/quote]

Quiet day? The same way you prevent them from picking up a copy of the vet record, in practice or finding a vet times at the recycling centre.

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

J G Wray — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 13:48:23 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]With the gentleman posing the question I smell a heffalump trap[/quote]

How do you prevent forum members, non-MsRCVS, from seeing spinning Yorkies and the like?

JGW

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Bob Russell — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 10:04:28 GMT

They can give general advice but label it brought to you by the makers of X,Y & Z.

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 09:57:21 GMT

With the gentleman posing the question I smell a heffalump trap

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Chris Geddes — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 09:45:57 GMT

http://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/vet/advertisingfaq.aspx

Re: Advertising POM-V to the public

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 08:52:02 GMT

I was under the impression that it was not, but I can't quote a specific law; this was from colleagues when I first started working in the UK. Certainly you could advocate products in consultation, but not an ad in the Daily Mirror, for example.