Transporting oxygen cylinders

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Anthony Todd — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 18:20:32 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]regularely carrying unsecured oxygen cylinders in an ordinary car[/quote]

Why do you need to do it? [except in an emergency, which isn't 'cos someone has forgotten to order the <5 you should have....]

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:28:07 GMT

I'm trying to imagine the phrasing of the insurence claim if it flew through the side of the car-and then the wall of someones house-but seriously they are lethal weapons-so should be treated with respect I'm the 1st to rant about petty 'elf and safety regulations which treat everyone like morons with no common sense-but regularely carrying unsecured oxygen cylinders in an ordinary car is plain stupid

If you were driving along the seaside and it flew out to sea-and hit a ship it would probably be mistaken for a torpedo attack-and start WW3

Wynne

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Bob Russell — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:18:12 GMT

I suspect there would just be a nice round hole in the side of the car and casualties outside!

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Niall Taylor — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 07:45:36 GMT

[quote user="Lorna McHardy"]

Good grief. It didn't even slow down when it went through that wall!! I'm not sure I really wanted to know that much about it...[/quote]

Yup, just imagine it with a sheet of flame coming out the back instead of oxygen vapour and then imagine it all inside your car - not good!

Niall

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Lorna McHardy — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 07:18:22 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I will think again!! [/quote]

Excellent link - mythbusters are sooo cool!

Niall

[/quote]

Good grief. It didn't even slow down when it went through that wall!! I'm not sure I really wanted to know that much about it...

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Niall Taylor — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 06:57:44 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I will think again!! [/quote]

Excellent link - mythbusters are sooo cool!

Niall

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 18:23:15 GMT

I heard once that dropping a match into diesel extinguishes the match (the vapor has to be under enormous pressure) so you guys were probably safe! (At least from fire!)

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Anthony Todd — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:56:05 GMT

Been in a bus in the bush at night in Zimbabwe with the driver under said bus trying to fix a diesel leak by the light of a cigarette lighter.

Elephants, ears flapping, all around us.

The late Henry Carter opined that elephants wouldn't charge a burning bus so we just sat there.....

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Bob Russell — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:44:58 GMT

I will think again!!

www.youtube.com/watch

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Niall Taylor — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:40:21 GMT

I think it's completely mental to transport O2 cylinders in a car. We were told by an experienced engineer a little of what can happen if they are damaged, particularly if the neck of the cylinder is knocked or ruptures. It's not just the risk of explosion, it's that they are highly pressurised and tend to behave like missiles when burst. It absolutely has to be illegal surely, and for good reason.

From http://www.livestrong.com/article/237734-what-are-the-dangers-of-oxygen-tanks/:

"Oxygen tanks can become dangerous projectile objects with the right stimulus. Tanks must be stored in an upright, secure setting where there is no risk of tipping or crashing to the ground. According to the National Council on Patient Safety, if gas is forcibly leaking from a canister, this can also propel the oxygen tank with a deadly force"

For a definitive answer you should contact the local firebrigade - I bet they'll be none too pleased.

I'm all for making sensible economies but this is not sensible.

Niall

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

An On MRCVS — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:30:21 GMT

Thank you all for your replies & Anthony for the link. Sorry Michael- couldnt open your link). To elaborate- cylinders (about 5 or 6) are carried loose in the boot with maybe a blanket around them, although another nurse forgot said blanket & arrived back in a bit of a tizz after listening to the loud clanking every time she went over a speed bump! Oh- and no green badge/sticker to speak of (ooops!)

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Bob Russell — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:25:54 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"] it is more than dangerous if heated by a burning petrol tank.[/quote]

?? the voice of experience speaking.

[/quote]

If you are trapped in a car with burning petrol the oxygen aiding combustion may be a blessing in disguise! Hopefully none of us will have to find out!

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:21:41 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"] it is more than dangerous if heated by a burning petrol tank.[/quote]

?? the voice of experience speaking.

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Anthony Todd — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:08:14 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]I'm pretty certain transporting full oxygen cylinders is illegal[/quote]

Bloody 'ell look at this

http://www.banes.nhs.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/About%20Us/Policies%20and%20Procedures/Guidelines%20Transportation%20of%20Oxygen%20June%202011.pdf

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Anthony Todd — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:03:49 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]The cost of delivery is £50, the cost of the cylinders is less than that!![/quote]

Yeah but if you stock about 5 and only deliver in batches of 4 the costs come down ie order when the last of the 5 is started.

And in my experience we still ran out occasionally, make sure they're empty when staff change them too, not when the gauge looks nearly there.

I'm pretty certain transporting full oxygen cylinders is illegal without all sorts of licences and signs etc. it is more than dangerous if heated by a burning petrol tank.

Ask your insurer, mind you transporting butane cylinders might be illegal too

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 16:48:39 GMT

Has anyone seen how thin the metal on a petrol is and how well that stuff burns? There should be laws against anyone driving a car with a petrol tank.

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Julie Innes — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 15:32:01 GMT

Well, I do it, and it saves me a lot! I use about 3 cylinders a month. The cost of delivery is £50, the cost of the cylinders is less than that!!

I am careful to secure them, and I don't really worry- I have carried heavier/ more dangerous loads in everyday life. As a recent graduate, I was involved in a serious car accident where my car was wiped out and I was hospitalised. At the time there was a full cylinder of butane gas (for disbudding calves) in the footwell behind me! as far as I am aware it came through unscathed (unlike my head and my brand new car!)

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

An On MRCVS — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 14:42:21 GMT

Anon as on somebody else's computer....

As a sometime diver (OH is the keen one), would confirm that the risk from carrying cylinders is largely due to the weight of steel, as opposed to explosions - whatever Hollywood would have you believe. For private use, we just have a little green sticker on the boot, and make sure that they're tucked in somewhere where any kind of horizontal decceleration can't dislodge them; for business use, though, H&S would probably require a method of securely fastening them to the floor of the vehicle. Not that hard to do, to be fair - just need to bolt through the chassis.

But by the time you look at mileage / petrol, wages etc, how much does it actually save? Sounds like more of a faff than it's worth.

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Bob Russell — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 13:36:53 GMT

Oxygen is not inflammable but supports combustion. I too would be more worried about a heavy cylinder flying around than the actual contents.

Properly secured I would have no real concerns but how do you secure them effectively? I would not lose any sleep transporting them but would be more concerned about hurting my back lugging them about so choose not to!

I do not expect any member of staff to do something I am not willing to do myself.

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 11:51:08 GMT

I wouldn't transport them regularly myself, so therefore wouldn't ask a member of staff to do so.

As far as risks, I'd be more concerned in an accident about the oxygen cylinder coming away from it's ties during transport and hitting me. I can't see how most vehicles would be able to tie them securely, as they would inevitably have to be carried horizontally.

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 11:23:05 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Sorry Re read the OP and if practice car then insurence probably OK Still doesn't cover safety risks

[/quote]

It would be interesting to know exactly what the safety risks are. Obviously there is a risk from the compressed gas, but I would imagine that the cylinders have to meet certain standards and have to be shown to tolerate a significant amount of force being applied to them before they break.

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 09:35:10 GMT

Sorry Re read the OP and if practice car then insurence probably OK Still doesn't cover safety risks

Wynne

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 09:33:10 GMT

If I was the nurse I would definitely refuse He/she is the 1 running the risk of a minor RTA turning into a serious risk of injury from explosion also a risk of a criminal conviction for driving whilst uninsured The delivery charge isn't that much Bad employers-and I'm an employer

Wynne

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 19:55:29 GMT

We do a similar thing. I put a strap around them and only carry a few at a time.

A quick google found this:

Linky

Re: Transporting oxygen cylinders

Hanna Bennett — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 19:46:50 GMT

i transported our cylinders when we moved practice, and got a bit freaked out about it - but having spoken to the insurance folks - the driver must be insured for business use, and must display a little green badge saying there are flammable gases on board so if there is an accident the paramedics etc know there is a risk of fire - otherwise they seemed quietly unconcerned.