Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Lorna McHardy — Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:27:13 GMT

I'd love to but I'm working in London that week! Enjoy Prague, it's a fantastic city.

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Gerry Henry — Sun, 15 Apr 2012 14:57:48 GMT

Checked your bio, OU in Clasical Studies, very impressive - but you're still wrong . BTW I don't suppose you can do the 5th June can you, I'm in Prague that week and I haven't got a locum for that day, just asking.

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Lorna McHardy — Sun, 15 Apr 2012 07:26:27 GMT

LOL! Very good. I'm pretty sure that contemporary productions would have been anything but uniform regardless of which quarto they were using. The Q1 version doesn't scan as well... but that, of course, is a personal view :0)

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Gerry Henry — Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:15:59 GMT

Dear Kismet,

Hamlet, as you know, was published in two different quarto editions during Shakespeare's life as well as in the First Folio, the "complete works" edition that appeared within a decade of his death. These editions are known as Q1 (the first quarto, 1603), Q2 (the second quarto, 1604) and F1 (the first folio, 1623). Almost all modern editions of Hamlet conflate passages from Q2 and F1, largely ignoring the first printed version of the play. Scholars have surmised that this Q1 version, often referred to as "the bad quarto," was a faulty version copied from the memory of an actor or a group of actors who performed the play. The sequence of action, the speeches, and many more details are different in Q1 than they are in either Q2 or F1. Some scholars (Kathleen Irace), have suggested that Q1 was used in smaller, traveling companies and resists the notion that Q1 is necessarily "bad." Lukas Erne has proposed, in fact, that Shakespeare himself oversaw multiple versions of his plays -- performing versions, like Q1, which were short, snappy and dramatic, and longer, literary versions, like Q2, designed primarily for an educated readership.

Or, to cut a long story short Kizzy, we're both right .... or wrong, depending how you look at it.

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Lorna McHardy — Sat, 14 Apr 2012 19:51:29 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]

This above all, to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as night follows day, thou canst be false to no man. ... or to put it another way, do what you think is best for the animal each and every time; everything else is a distraction.

[/quote]

"... And it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man."

Sorry... bit of a pedant about Shakespeare. Oh, and I agree, but it's sometimes easier said than done :0)

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Gerry Henry — Sat, 14 Apr 2012 16:32:07 GMT

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Lorna McHardy — Sat, 14 Apr 2012 11:57:43 GMT

Urgh, sounds like a bit of a minefield

Did I understand this correctly... the daughter in law says she has been injured by your client? Just wondering... how did the cat's injury occur?

Wishing you the best of luck with this one!

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Julie Innes — Sat, 14 Apr 2012 11:38:46 GMT

Anon- thanks, that was a helpful post (even if it has made me even more worried about dealing with this lady!)- I had never heard of HPD before.

the DIL did say that the old lady had other personality disorders too!

Think I will need to be very careful in how I handle this one! gah

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Malcolm Ness — Sat, 14 Apr 2012 11:34:19 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]For info personality disorders and mental health issues are not synonymous. They can overlap but someone with a personality disorder can, and often does, have full mental capacity no matter how odd their behaviour seems. Unfortunately I have experience of a relative with HPD (hence the anonymous posting) and my sympathies are squarely with the DIL. But legally it seems the elderly lady is your client unless she is proved lacking in capacity. If they had deputyship for her that would put them on more solid ground as she would have had to have been diagnosed as lacking capacity for it to be granted, financial power of attorney just allows them to manage her finances/property on her behalf but doesn't necessarily indicate lack of capacity and the donor can still override decisions by the attorneys. However, if she did request pts you could refuse given the GTPC says "No veterinary surgeon is obliged to kill a healthy animal unless required to do so under statutory powers as part of their conditions of employment." but then in true RCVS style it immediately drops an apparently veiled threat "To refuse an owner's request for euthanasia may add to the owner's distress and could be deleterious to the welfare of the animal." Whatever you do be careful - people with HPD thrive on being the centre of attention and are highly manipulative - I don't envy you[/quote]

Excellent information.

Am I the only one that thinks the vet school curriculum would be enhanced if we were given some information/overview on MHI ?

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 14 Apr 2012 10:18:42 GMT

Family issues can be very problematical The case I had was a very sane old lady who owned an elderly terrier who was doing very well on medication for chf and also arthritis The old lady and dog lived alone as she was a widow, and both children lived the other end of the country This didn't stop them phoning me demanding that the dog be PTSed (to prevent suffering ) I kept telling them it wasn't suffering and anyway that I could not do so unless requested by the legal owner The old lady was obviously well off, so expense was not an issue to her, but I think the children were worrying that veterinary fees were reducing their inheritance I eventually PTSed the dog as the old lady phoned and requested it-but it went against the grain as I felt the dog had a reasonable length of quality time left and as her daughter was present (on one of her rare visits ) and I felt the OL had been bullied into making the request

Wynne

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

An On MRCVS — Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:21:52 GMT

For info personality disorders and mental health issues are not synonymous. They can overlap but someone with a personality disorder can, and often does, have full mental capacity no matter how odd their behaviour seems. Unfortunately I have experience of a relative with HPD (hence the anonymous posting) and my sympathies are squarely with the DIL. But legally it seems the elderly lady is your client unless she is proved lacking in capacity. If they had deputyship for her that would put them on more solid ground as she would have had to have been diagnosed as lacking capacity for it to be granted, financial power of attorney just allows them to manage her finances/property on her behalf but doesn't necessarily indicate lack of capacity and the donor can still override decisions by the attorneys. However, if she did request pts you could refuse given the GTPC says "No veterinary surgeon is obliged to kill a healthy animal unless required to do so under statutory powers as part of their conditions of employment." but then in true RCVS style it immediately drops an apparently veiled threat "To refuse an owner's request for euthanasia may add to the owner's distress and could be deleterious to the welfare of the animal." Whatever you do be careful - people with HPD thrive on being the centre of attention and are highly manipulative - I don't envy you

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Julie Innes — Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:27:54 GMT

Thanks, guys! I hate being put in these kind of situations. The old lady is a bit...odd, but as the son/ DIL don't seem to have power of attorney etc, she IS still the client...

Am hoping she will calm down now and (hoping against hope) the op will have been a success, so might not come up, but just wanted to be prepared!

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Nicola Lawlor — Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:23:59 GMT

I agree with Michael, the client is the old lady, not the DIL and you have to respect her wishes. On the other hand perhaps you could talk to her and perhaps ask her to sign something that gives her DIL authority to make decisions about the care of the cat on her behalf given that the lady has sounded keen for her DIL to talk to you already anyway. Perhaps this would be a good case to call the VDS about too before any big decisions are made from here??

Re: Ethical implications with clients with MH issues

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:17:18 GMT

If the owner makes sense (knows who she is, address etc) then she can consent to the euthanasia of the cat. What the DIL said is almost irrelevant.

(It actually sounds like the last thing to do is make the old lady mad!)

Didn't we have something similar not very long ago?