Owner/cat conundrum?

Re: Owner/cat conundrum?

Utlendigur — Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:10:36 GMT

Just catching up after a week away. I agree with the other posts - the mother is the owner and your client, it's her decision. With respect to POA (Lasting power of attorney LPA) there are two types - financial and health/welfare - most people only bother with the financial one. This gives the attorney the right to operate bank accounts and/or dispose of property on behalf of the donor BUT under the mental health act the donor (the person granting POA) should have a right to make their own decisions, even bad ones, unless it can be proved that they lack capacity - which requires supporting evidence from a GP or other doctor. If there is no LPA in place and the person does lack capacity the son would have to apply to the court of protection for deputyship - which takes 6-8months. To use the LPA the attorney has to show the original document (or certified copy) and generally two forms of ID eg passport, bank statement - so another route may be to call his bluff and ask for the documentation.

I was just a bit worried about the son saying it was just a cat and he'd sort it himself - if he does have "anger management" issues do you thing there is any risk he may harm the cat (or take it to another vet for pts) or bully/harm his mother? If so maybe a follow up phone call to her...

Re: Owner/cat conundrum?

John Rimmer — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 20:27:58 GMT

What a horrible son. Trying to keep hold of inheritance. Sad.

Re: Owner/cat conundrum?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 17:45:18 GMT

On a slightly different note, I will not tolerate anyone raising their voice or being abusive to myself or staff. They get 1 warning and then I am happy to hang up the phone, and the staff are instructed likewise.

It's hard, but you sound like you've done the best you can in an awkward situation. Hope your new job is better!

Re: Owner/cat conundrum?

Holly Norman — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 17:39:16 GMT

Thank you for the replies and I am definitely in agreement.

I have sent a carefully worded referral letter along with clinical notes (including brief descriptions of the telephone calls that have been made) to the referral vets. I've also made it clear on the clinical notes that no treatment/euthanasia is to be carried out without the owner's consent. Have also copied this to my area manager as unfortunately today is my last day at this job (and what a day!). I've also briefed my nurse so that she knows the situation.

And I certainly agree with Niall- if the son had politely asked to speak to me privately about his mother's 'condition' and been much more courteous, I would certainly be more inclined to perhaps push PTS but I'm not quite sure what he was hoping to achieve by not only verbally abusing me but also my nurse.

Thank you all for helping me with a very difficult situation.

Re: Owner/cat conundrum?

Rachael Winder — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 16:43:34 GMT

I really feel for you in this situation. I am fortunate to have the other extreme with one of my cases currently- owner elderly and dementia but devoted to dog with end-stage PLN, 2 children living a distance from parent and with son having power of attorney. However luckily the children are lovely people who are desperately trying to find the balance between doing the best for the dog and keeping the father happy. They are involved in decision making and have been hugely supportive and appreciative of the joint approach we've made. This thread has made me realise how easily it could have been very different.

Re: Owner/cat conundrum?

Niall Taylor — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 16:30:19 GMT

Very difficult situation - it's a pity the son isn't exactly trying to win hearts and minds and seems to be working against you rather that with.

Genuine mental health problems can be devastating in this sort of situation. Dementia sufferers for instance can appear lucid in the early stages but will lose the ability to make rational decisions, particularly involving money and have been known to give away great amounts of cash inapproriatley.

If the son is genuinely concerned and the mother really has become irrational then he will need to give you evidence that he has power of attorney over his mother's posessions - bank accounts, house etc... so that he has the control he clearly wants. Of course if she is just seeing a part-time councillor every now and again because she occasionally gets a bit depressed and the son is just concerned about his inheritance disappearing into the cat then that's different altogether and he certainly isn't entitled to make decisions on his mother's behalf.

If he doesn't have power of attorney then it is down to your professional judgement as to what you do - if the owner consistently appears lucid and has the funds then you need to stick to your plan as VDS suggests. Some people will spend a lot on their animals and while this woman's son may not agree with her decision it is hers to make regardless.

You could compromise by saying to the owner that you've had a word with colleagues and it might be worth trying a course of antibiotics first, before committing to referral - you never know, it might just be a tooth root abscess and it would give you more time to fully assess the situation.

Or what about making a few discrete inquiries of friends or neighbours - are their any other children you could approach? This line is a client confidentiality nightmare of course.

Niall

Re: Owner/cat conundrum?

Bob Russell — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 15:58:20 GMT

Just make the referral centre aware of the situation (perhaps by documenting events on records) because they just might get caught up in the middle and end up having difficulties recovering their fees!

Pass the buck to them would be my advice but be honest with them so they can make their own decision.

My suspicion is that the owner cares more about the cat than she does the son. It sounds as if she is compos mentis and he is thinking about the money. The shouting says it all!

Re: Owner/cat conundrum?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 15:57:44 GMT

I had a similar case-only worse as the prognosis- dog with congestive heart failure was good for a reasonable lengnth of time with medication. Owner-a lovely old lady, lived alone with the dog,and really loved him. Both son and daughter-neither of whom lived locally phoned threatening me with "taking advantage " of their mother-and demanded I tell her to PTS the dog I eventually PTSed it-but only after a request from the old lady-who I believe was bullied into it-hope she cut the children out of her willand left everything to Dogs Trust-it would serve them right.Again highlylucid very intelligent old lady-but her children maintained she was ga-ga

Wynne

Re: Owner/cat conundrum?

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 15:42:15 GMT

I'd view ist like that: The mother is the owner, there is no paperwork that she is not fit to make decisions. I would not be prepared to get involved into family arguments (my first thought was that the son might be worried about his inheritance...) So if she wants referral she gets referral. Be sure to document everything (especially the bit about prognosis despite of more diagnostics) , if you can have a witness in the room when you talk to the mother. If she can't be driven by her son she may find someone else or take a taxi - who knows? This is nothing you should be worrying about. Furthermore I would refuse to talk to the son again. He is not your customer, he has been abusive, no point in talking to him.

Good luck, keep yourself away from their arguments!

Re: Owner/cat conundrum?

Mark Holmes — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 15:24:58 GMT

My only input is gratitude that its not me in your shoes.