What should you do with a whistle blower?

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Richard Carter — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 10:46:57 GMT

Think the idea is to address the problem of collegues taking drugs or alcohol at work. Whether this is for the RCVS or not I am not sure but if there is a possible public danger there has to be a mechanism to remove the practitioner until remedial action can be put into place. I don't think it is to address something like someone not wearing gloves while they operate.

Would locum/ income protection insurance cover if the absence that occurred was drug induced?

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Chris Barker — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 13:36:45 GMT

Given that the health protocol is already in action, entirely reliant on either complaints or ‘referrals’ for it to swing into action, one hopes that the full consequences of whistle blowing have already been discussed and assessed by the RCVS. For natural justice to be seen at work, whenever a whistle blower lodges a complaint he or she will have to expect that their own motives will come under proper and intense scrutiny. They cannot hope to remain anonymous. If the complaint is genuine then they will have to provide any investigative team with detailed evidence of the ‘wrong-doing’, which will require the whistle blower to have documented the witnessed occurrences, details of which may have to be abstracted from the PMS of the clinic, which immediately opens another can of worms. Meanwhile the RCVS cannot ignore the possibility that a complaint may prove malicious; it is therefore entirely proper that the whistle blower be subjected to equal scrutiny.

The consequences of whistle blowing within a practice could be immense, however justified the referral may be. Interpersonal relationships will be rocked, possibly destroyed. In most businesses, with owners/managers keen to protect its’ reputation, it is already considered acceptable for the more senior clinicians (often coincidentally the bosses) to monitor the clinical abilities of those ‘beneath’, to point out where perceived deficiencies lie, and to establish practice protocols for more junior colleagues to follow. Disciplinary procedures can then be invoked for those that ignore such protocols and in this fashion the top down approach maintains standards and protects animal welfare.

Problems arise when standards are not applied/upheld by those most senior, or when the perpetrator is a member of the senior staff. Indeed, one suspects that this may be the only scenario whereby under performance would not be addressed by internal mechanisms. Whistle blowing is an option, and one which the RCVS has made, or is about to make (depending on how one interprets GTPC wording), a professional duty.

At which point one assumes that the RCVS feels it has done its regulatory duty. It has both drafted health and performance protocols, it has (or will have) tied up the loose ends and incorporated them into the GTPC and its immediate successor, and so it sits back and pats itself on the back, comfortable in the knowledge that it has done its duty, has been seen to do its duty, and that there are no alternatives.

Which seems to be the way of the RCVS. I would raise two issues – first, have they genuinely considered the consequences to the people and practices involved – and second, do they really think this reporting route will be used, even if it is now (or soon will be) a professional duty? The whistle blower will almost unavoidably be ostracised – however justified the referral may be, personal loyalties of staff to senior members will be immensely strong, and unless ALL other staff share the ethical righteousness of the whistle blower then the reporter may find his/her continued employment by the clinic untenable. You can legislate for people’s actions but it is far more difficult to dictate their feelings. The consequences of referral may be considerable both for the whistle blower (deterioration of working conditions, stress, the need to seek a new post with consequential upheaval and financial cost, long term ‘taint’ [unfair but unavoidable] in the employment market as a known whistle blower) and for the practice (breakdown of trust, the need to prevent discrimination towards the whistle blower, the possibility of tribunal action should the whistle blower resign and allege constructive dismissal).

Does any of this seem to bother the RCVS? Apparently not. It feels that it has to maintain a posture – as over so many issues – ‘It is what is expected of a modern regulator….what else can we do?’

Is the performance protocol a protocol that will safeguard animal welfare? Put it this way – if I was a junior colleague and thought through the consequences of whistle blowing I might just look the other way. I think the RCVS is mistaken if it thinks that the profession will be rushing to avail itself of the opportunity to protect the welfare of animals being ‘abused’ by cavalier or negligent colleagues.

Chris B

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Julian Earl — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 11:40:51 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Julian Earl"]It's human nature that potential new employers might be wary, isn't it? [/quote]

It's a thin line to walk between wariness and discrimination.

The pantheon of "whistle blowers" in the veterinary world, down the years includes

The whole RMB crew

The whole anti vaccine lobby

Marc Abrahams for his contribution to Tonight in 2009

Mr Watkinson for his contribution to the Mail and vanity publishing

All those locums who post stuff about how practices behave

All those "Anons" who post stuff about how practices behave

All those who report MsRCVS to RCVS Disciplinary

All those who get MsRCVS referred to the VSHSP

I'm astonished there's enough room left on that moral high ground

JGW

[/quote]

But all in all, that's a miscellaneous collection with some similarities and a lot of differences. That's where one takes each case on its merits. Would I employ some of the people on that list? Probably not. But others are probably deserving of promotion or whatever equivalent we have in the profession.

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Malcolm Ness — Fri, 24 Feb 2012 08:29:17 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]I'm astonished there's enough room left on that moral high ground[/quote]

Tell us Jonathan, how much space can you see from where you are?

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

J G Wray — Fri, 24 Feb 2012 07:38:20 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]It's human nature that potential new employers might be wary, isn't it? [/quote]

It's a thin line to walk between wariness and discrimination.

The pantheon of "whistle blowers" in the veterinary world, down the years includes

The whole RMB crew

The whole anti vaccine lobby

Marc Abrahams for his contribution to Tonight in 2009

Mr Watkinson for his contribution to the Mail and vanity publishing

All those locums who post stuff about how practices behave

All those "Anons" who post stuff about how practices behave

All those who report MsRCVS to RCVS Disciplinary

All those who get MsRCVS referred to the VSHSP

I'm astonished there's enough room left on that moral high ground

JGW

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Julian Earl — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:06:40 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Julian Earl"]It's a nice view from the moral high ground. Apparently.[/quote]

Hmmmm, it's not much really, is it?

Now, RCVS are about to make whistle blowing compulsory in the revised GtPC in order to protect animal welfare and the "public interest".

Is that enough? I ask this because there are those who whistle blow on the petfood industry, on conventional medicine, on conventional practice citing animal welfare and public interest by justification who end up marginalised and ostracised. That doesn't look very attractive either.

JGW

[/quote]

Like so many things, it will depend on the case in hand. If an individual is merely reporting what everyone else in an organisation knows is wrong but these others are too scared (etc.) to report "it", then the individual who does the reporting could expect to be supported by his/her peers. However, if one individual is reporting something that nobody else cares about, then they could expect to be shunned within that organisation and continued employmenty may be awkward. There are countless variations on those themes of course.

I would have thought though that between the law giving legal protection to the whistleblower, and the RCVS giving moral backing, all a genuine whistleblower has to fear is being unable to find a new job when they walk! And that's a decision the individual has to make for themself because there's no way an organisation can be forced to employ any applicant. It's human nature that potential new employers might be wary, isn't it? My flippant response above was partly serious - there may well be little to gain apart from just doing the right thing; the cost of that is difficult to legislate about.

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

J G Wray — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:45:27 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]It's a nice view from the moral high ground. Apparently.[/quote]

Hmmmm, it's not much really, is it?

Now, RCVS are about to make whistle blowing compulsory in the revised GtPC in order to protect animal welfare and the "public interest".

JGW

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Julian Earl — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:32:56 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

Can anyone think of any other reward for being a whistle blower?

JGW

[/quote]

It's a nice view from the moral high ground. Apparently.

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

J G Wray — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:28:54 GMT

[quote user="Neal Palk"]In the case of the OP (I think) this is more about an individual raising workplace concerns -and whether to do so internally or externally (or both). [/quote]

Dear Mr Palk,

Not exactly. My posting was about the whistle blower and how they should expect to be treated, not the person/practice/organisation dobbed in. I think the whistle blower can very rarely come out of a situation they find themselves in with any credit from their peers, because as far as I can see that's all the credit that's going.

Can anyone think of any other reward for being a whistle blower?

JGW

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Neal Palk — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 08:21:59 GMT

It depends on context - the PID act is very specific and relates to matter in the 'public interest' so most of the time internal 'grievances' would not be covered. There are also processes for airing such issues which need to be followed by all parties.

In the case of the OP (I think) this is more about an individual raising workplace concerns -and whether to do so internally or externally (or both). Provided such concerns are real and not frivolous/vexatious then standard grievance procedures would cover them......although the informal route is usually the best best to a speedy and pleasant resolution!

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

plantagenet — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 08:16:12 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]should I blow the whistle or not??[/quote]

Could you approach the practice directly in the first instance?

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 22 Feb 2012 18:30:56 GMT

How is whistle blowing defined? is it telling tales on a colleague who leaves work 10 minutes early, or exposing a neighbouring practice that is doing something illegal or unethical??

I recently came across a practice that has an anaesthesia consent form where propofol is offered at a £15 additional cost on the grounds it is "safer" (which is another debate in itself). However, propofol is used in all patients now, the form dates back to the days of thiopentone but has been kept in place as a revenue generating tool - should I blow the whistle or not??

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 22 Feb 2012 18:21:28 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

Should whistle blowers in our World be shunned? Should a pretext be found to exclude them from whichever organisation they've made nuisance of themselves in?

JGW

[/quote]

Why do you ask?

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Neal Palk — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 14:21:57 GMT

The answer may depend on the origin of the question (i.e the manager of the whistleblower or the whistleblower him/herself). Neither appears to be covered under PID and relate to internal grievances (I assume). So it's hard to see where whistleblowing is relevant except where professional standards are concerned.

Maybe dangerous to post much more detail on here though!

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

J G Wray — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 14:16:30 GMT

An excerpt from the GtPC under the whistleblowing section

"..Certain whistleblowing is protected under The Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998, which seeks to protect employees from detrimental treatment by employers if they whistleblow. Veterinary surgeons and veterinary nurses should consider obtaining independent legal advice if they may qualify for protection under the Act, and for further guidance on how their employment may be affected. It may also be beneficial to consider whether membership of a trade union or similar organisation would be of assistance, or whether relevant legal cover is provided by, for example, any household insurance policy..."

JGW

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

J G Wray — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:55:33 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]I think (perhaps hypocritically) it depends on the whistle they've blown.[/quote]

I am thinkiing about two instances, the first is in respect of a professional competence issue at work and the second in respect of discriminatory action and articulation of discriminatory attitude.

Any comments?

JGW

PS Who are you?

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Mark Holmes — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 10:53:52 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

Should whistle blowers in our World be shunned? Should a pretext be found to exclude them from whichever organisation they've made nuisance of themselves in?

JGW

[/quote]

If whistle blowing occurs because all internal means of addressing the problem have been explored and found unsatisfactory then its a good thing. If whistle blowing is used vindictively based on limited evidence and when internal measures have been ignored or by passed then I think there is an argument to say its not whistle blowing but sabotage. Lets remember whistleblowing can be influenced by personal perceptions, may be based on false assumptions and can be very damaging to an innocent party.

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 10:41:57 GMT

Definitely not If someone hadn't done something wrong-there would be no whistle to be blown Victimizing someone who exposes wrong is totally unacceptable

Wynne

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

plantagenet — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:28:05 GMT

I think (perhaps hypocritically) it depends on the whistle they've blown.

Re: What should you do with a whistle blower?

Neal Palk — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:27:56 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

Should whistle blowers in our World be shunned? Should a pretext be found to exclude them from whichever organisation they've made nuisance of themselves in?

JGW

[/quote]

There is existing legislation in place to offer employment protection for 'whistle blowing' (Public Interest Disclosure)! It may depend what 'nuisance' you refer to of course - I would suggest whistle-blowing in many cases is not nuisance (unless you're in Government, RBS, Exxon, Arthur Anderson etc etc!) but offers an element of protection to the public and/or shareholders?