News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:34:23 GMT

How good are SAs northern borders? I mean-if we can't stop drug/people smuggling when we're an island ? I agree it would be a good point to stop the trade-if only it would work

Wynne

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Julian Earl — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:29:05 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Fines and prison sentences will only work in a country with a properly functioning legal system. The high prices involved means that corruption is a fact of life and it is easy to buy yourself out of trouble.

This might work in the UK but is unlikely to be a good answer in parts of Kenya and I suspect South Africa.

The danger is that the foot soldiers go to jail but the powerful pay a small bribe!

[/quote]

That's why the WWF are trying a multi-layered approach of education in the East, border controls, tougher punishments for those at the top layer of the crime, as well as physically stopping the poachers.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:22:07 GMT

But that's such a defeatist attitude We can't just make excuses for doing nothing Maybe the SA veterinary council is corrupt-so this veterinary surgeon paid a bribe for his ridiculously low punishment I feel sick and very angry

Wynne

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Bob Russell — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:55:51 GMT

This might work in the UK but is unlikely to be a good answer in parts of Kenya and I suspect South Africa.

The danger is that the foot soldiers go to jail but the powerful pay a small bribe!

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Julian Earl — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 20:30:25 GMT

Just an update from the WWf on the appalling threat to rhinos:

There are around 25,000 in the wild today and until 2008 poaching was under control; the numbers killed was in low double figures. In 2007, 13 white rhinos were killed in South Africa, and 83 in 2008. Then 122 in 2009. In 2010, 333. In 2011 over 400. In Kenya the numbers are smaller but the impact just as bad: 15 black rhino, much the rarer of the two in Africa, were killed which was more than were born.

There were only four poachers convicted in 2010.

It is thought that a rumour in Vietnam that a government minister had been cured of cancer is responsible for the upsurge in poaching but no minister has been identified and no evidence of the case found.

The WWF also comment that poachers now often use tranquilliser darts to anaesthetise the rhinos because fresh horn is more highly prized; rhinos have been found with half of their face removed and left to bleed to death. (If this vet in the OP has been involved in this, which it clearly sounds like, then I hope he never sees the light of day again.)

One current action is to use prison sentences for gang leaders instead of fines and WWF believe it may be working as eight years is the shortest sentence so far. In addition, stronger controls of export permits, training and education of police, information sharing by governments in Africa and Vietnam, and targeted awareness campaigns about rhino horn myths are all being applied.

Here's hoping but if we can't save animals like the rhino, what the hell can we save?

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:35:49 GMT

Micheal I thought rhino horn was actually hair not horn as we know it-but dehorning won't solve the problem of horrible poachers shooting rhinos from a distance then finding out the horn's missing

Wynne

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Bob Russell — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:22:08 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"][quote user="Bob Russell"]

Sadly the problem with rhino horn poaching is a finite one! Once they are all gone so is the rhino horn.

We need a few key practitioners of oriental medicine to discover that ground up human fingernails are far more potent as an aphrodisiac and maintains a much better "gentleman's sausage" than rhino horn! Equally disgusting I know but a completely renewable source!

I don't want to look at any link of maimed wildlife! I already despair of the human race and its stupidity.

[/quote]

without any levity, i really did hope that the invention of viagra would solve the poaching problem. :(

[/quote]

Viagra does not make the oriental medicine practitioner any money, it is not 'traditional' enough!

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:33:16 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Sadly the problem with rhino horn poaching is a finite one! Once they are all gone so is the rhino horn.

I don't want to look at any link of maimed wildlife! I already despair of the human race and its stupidity.

[/quote]

without any levity, i really did hope that the invention of viagra would solve the poaching problem. :(

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:13:14 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]It stops them wasting their time chasing a hornless rhino again, at least until the horn has re-grown[/quote]

I know nothing about rhino's, but if you dehorn it properly it should not grow back. Destroy the perioplic ring or the rhino equivalent.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Bob Russell — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:55:36 GMT

Sadly the problem with rhino horn poaching is a finite one! Once they are all gone so is the rhino horn.

I don't want to look at any link of maimed wildlife! I already despair of the human race and its stupidity.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Julian Earl — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:02:50 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Why do the authorities not dart, dehorn and release the rhino?

Seriously we dehorn cattle routinely, not sure it would be a welfare issue so long as we got them all. Why it should be cruel to do a rhino and fine to do an adult cow makes no sense!

IF the vet allowed them to dehorn the Rhino's without killing them he may have done a lot of good. Sounds to me like a rock and hard place situation to me.

[/quote]

In answer to the question here and above about removing the horns, yes they have removed the horns from rhinos and the poachers have just killed them anyway. (a) It stops them wasting their time chasing a hornless rhino again, at least until the horn has re-grown, and (b) the price of horn goes up the rarer rhinos become.

There is no easy answer apart from political will for protection combined with education of the people who are responsible for the hunting.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:53:10 GMT

Why do the authorities not dart, dehorn and release the rhino?

Seriously we dehorn cattle routinely, not sure it would be a welfare issue so long as we got them all. Why it should be cruel to do a rhino and fine to do an adult cow makes no sense!

IF the vet allowed them to dehorn the Rhino's without killing them he may have done a lot of good. Sounds to me like a rock and hard place situation to me.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Joyce Whitehead — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:38:44 GMT

For the record, I also feel the sentence on the face of it seems remarkably light.

I just wanted to say thanks for the link to the photos though - I wouldn't have seen them otherwise and some of them although disturbing, are fantastic images.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Mark Holmes — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:43:43 GMT

Actually the picture is pretty hideous, they have taken both horns plus the germinal tissue by the look of it. Bloody difficult call though to say if it is better or worse than dead, given the population of rhinos and presumably it's now "safe" from poachers.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Chris Aylott — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 22:39:18 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]Sorry cant find the pic on your link.[/quote]

If you want to find it then start at the bbc.co.uk/news home page then "In Pictures" then "World Press Photo Competition". It's not the only disturbing picture there.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Mark Rowland — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:06:41 GMT

I agree, I have no idea on the ins and outs of the whole ghastly operation.

And there probably are vets (all over the world) tempted by pecuniary matters to their shame.

We have to remember though that this is a newspaper article and we may not be in possession of all the facts, thats all i'm alluding to.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Simon Neuhoff — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:56:17 GMT

Sorry to say as I understand it the poachers DON'T kill the rhinos. What happens is, having darted the animal, they chainsaw the front of the rhino's face off, horns and all. The animal is left to "recover" but is so maimed that the rangers have to destroy them - the lucky ones that are found that is.

Re the Mafia scenario I'm afraid that is again wishful thinking. There are currently other South African vets being prosecuted for rhino poaching - not merely the supply of drugs.

South Africa does not have a monopoly on dodgy vets but being a South African this lot leave me deeply ashamed - and furious.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Mark Rowland — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:32:34 GMT

Sorry cant find the pic on your link.

I suspect its pretty horrible, I was talking in terms of the gene pool.

So heres a conundrum:

Youre a vet in South Africa, guns are very available and rhino horn is probably mafia level crime.

Someone comes to you

" I want you to get me some tranquliser for rhinos. If you dont Im going to shoot them anyway. If you get me some I will pay you and thats the end of it. If you tell anyone about this you will be killed. By the way before you answer, one of my goons is watching your other half pick your kids up from school"

Its not an impossible scenario, one way out would be to order so much it raised eyebrows and got the vet struck off?

Theres a nice one for a Sat night (oh well the rugby's off)

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Chris Aylott — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:03:10 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"] I suppose a live hornless rhino is better than a dead hornless rhino. [/quote]

have a look at the 12th picture in this series

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-16979784

I really don't know. Is this better?

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Mark Rowland — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:07:22 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Actually, and this does involve a bit of lateral thinking, I would prefer the poachers to use M99 rather than bullets. Provided that is they survive the process.

[/quote]

I also thought this. I suppose a live hornless rhino is better than a dead hornless rhino. This may have been his defence.

This in no way condones what this VS did and i agree that his sentence should have been more harsh.

Poachers with a conscience whatever next.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

james herriot lied — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:54:17 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

What, they are popular for being accountable, sensible, and open?

[/quote]

Yes. That's exactly what I meant.

I was trying to explain to the OH today about the fact that many of our esteemed council have been elected on a minority vote from less than a 1/6 of the electorate: some have a genuine mandate from about 3-5% of the profession. But all the OH could say was, 'What, you can actually get struck off for NOT moving house, and then forgetting to tell them that you HAVEN'T moved house. Are they mad?' My reply would probably get me struck off. Even saying that could probably get me struck off..........

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Julian Earl — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:33:20 GMT

[quote user="james herriot lied"]

A friend - a vet from SA who has just arrived back in this country - was telling me about this last week, and was going to post about it. Rest assured, the SA veterinary profession is about as enamoured of the whole affair as we in the UK are likely to be: the SA veterinary authorities are about as popular over there as the RCVS is over here, but for diametrically opposite reasons.

[/quote]

What, they are popular for being accountable, sensible, and open?

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Mark Holmes — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:28:26 GMT

Actually, and this does involve a bit of lateral thinking, I would prefer the poachers to use M99 rather than bullets. Provided that is they survive the process.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

james herriot lied — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:07:53 GMT

A friend - a vet from SA who has just arrived back in this country - was telling me about this last week, and was going to post about it. Rest assured, the SA veterinary profession is about as enamoured of the whole affair as we in the UK are likely to be: the SA veterinary authorities are about as popular over there as the RCVS is over here, but for diametrically opposite reasons.

Re: News Article re Vet's disciplinary hearing, South Africa

Lorna McHardy — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:01:20 GMT

Leaving aside for a moment the implications of this particular offence and the question of whether or not the sentence was appropriate in this particular case, I'm fascinated by what they did impose...

"The SAVC issued a suspension for a period of six months, which was then suspended for 10 years on condition that Meyer didn’t commit the crime again, paid a fine of R25 000 and wrote an article for the SAVC newsletter on the impact of the misuse of scheduled medicines on the veterinary profession."

Speaking generally, that strikes me as a peculiarly enlightened approach to sentencing, if your objective is to get somebody to not do it again. I'm actually quite impressed.