compulsory microchips

Re: compulsory microchips

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:58:15 GMT

If microchipping becomes compulsory, how are people suggesting we certify that the details we are provided with are correct? I realise that a good owner wants them to be accurate, but if someone is having it done who wants to later evade any responsibility for that pet (ie it is known to be aggressive or is routinely allowed to stray) then it is extremely easy to give false details. Conversely, even if the details are actually correct, what is to stop an owner saying they aren't and thereby denying all responsibility? The law requires proof....criminals are very good at finding loopholes....

Also, does the database hold a history? If a dog wanders off, causes an accident or they simply chuck it out, what is there to stop them immediately ringing up the database and changing the details or just saying it died, thereby deleting the record?

I also think that in an ideal world microchipping all dogs would be great. However, I can't see how it would have any impact at all on the number of strays or for prosecuting bad owners. Unless you feel that most dogs become strays by accident..... which I don't.

Re: compulsory microchips

Sally Burnell — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:03:40 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]

don't understand the reluctance - who is seriously going to try oppose compulsory ID chips? The government, the KC and BVA have already decided the only way for correct identification is by microchip for passports, breeder schemes etc.

[/quote]

Hi all, The vast majority of the debate was pro-microchipping and Lord Renton's view stood out like a sore thumb!

Just to expand on Richard Carter's comment - BVA is fully in support of compulsory microchipping and is a member of the Microchipping Alliance, which is chaired by the Dogs Trust. The Dogs Trust and BVA public affairs offices briefed a number of Peers ahead of the debate (some of whom spoke) and circulated the Microchipping Alliance briefing. The briefing is available on the BVA website and includes the economic case for introducing compulsory microchipping in England. There are some separate figures available for Wales and DT is kindly turning those into a nice looking briefing at the moment. The Microchipping Alliance has written to Lord Renton to explain why his views are not supported by the Alliance members.

There is certainly a growing momentum on this issue (there was a debate in the Welsh Assembly on the same day) and we are very hopeful that the Defra anouncement (for England) will come soon. Northern Ireland has led the way so we'll keep plugging away in the rest of the UK!

Thanks

Sally

Re: compulsory microchips

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:35:52 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

Give me strength.... how do fecking eejits like that end up in the House of Lords ???

[/quote]

Because they're not elected they get there by virtue of the weakness of their chin and the number of plums in their mouths or the depth of their pockets.

In tune with Malcolm's earlier post, my dad used to say: It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.' I believe this came from a soldier's handbook in the second world war.

Re: compulsory microchips

Bob Russell — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:00:07 GMT

Clearly you have the choice of a free chip and pay PetLog £15 or pay £15 for the chip and free PetLog! Not sure which is better value!!

With Anibase there is the option to have regular emails sent to remind the owner to keep the address updated. People just forget these things.

I am sure compulsory chipping would be accompanied by the return of the dog licence to the UK. My first dog was licensed at 371/2P!! It was originally 7/6d and this was rounded down to 37p when the 1/2p went out of circulation. I bet it will be closer to £50 if it is reintroduced!

(dog licencing was abandoned in 1987 because it cost about a pound to collect the 37p)

Re: compulsory microchips

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:08:05 GMT

Dogs Trust have been providing us with microchips that we have been implanting into dogs free-of-charge for the last few months. I'd say about 1500 or so done at our practice and other practices in Northern Ireland have been doing the same.

From April, this will be compulsory apparently (http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/dogwardens/dogchipping.asp). Dog Licences have been a requirement in Northern Ireland for as long as I can remember.

Some observations (I can't decide if I'm in favour or not):

1) Those who don't have dog licenses are probably not going to bother getting microchips either.

2) Currently strays picked up by the warden have to have dog license paid for on collection.

3) A significant number of young puppies find the experience strangely adversive.

4) If something is free then people want it, even if they don't need it (even if you say the free chips are not as sharp as the ones you can pay for and your pup is more likely to squeal!)

5) I wonder where this comes in the whole animal welfare / vet surgery debate etc? Can anyone implant a microchip?

6) While the implanting is free, the petlog database will charge you £15 to change the details of your pets current microchip if you have one. As apparently the cost of rehoming a stray dog has come to £1100??! I guess this is a drop in the ocean...

7) I cannot remember the last time I found a chip in a dog and the details of the owner were actually contactable...

8) SHould we be doing children also? It could be very handy if they get lost and improve responsible parenting. Government could explain howitwould cut down on benefit fraud later on. Of course, if it's totally safe then all advocates of dog microchipping then those in favour of compulsory m/c indogs won't mind being the first humans to get it done...

Re: compulsory microchips

Rob Loxley — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:13:14 GMT

I'd be in favour, and have made that clear to my MP, while accepting it is no panacea

Re: compulsory microchips

Utlendigur — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:28:25 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]I don't think anyone has suggested it is a panacea for all dog related issues[/quote]

Some of the coverage I've heard/read certainly has!

[quote user="Mark Holmes"] You equate it to insuring a vehicle, some cars have no MOT or insurance but the law significantly improves the situation and as nobody is suggesting a repeal the law on car insurance one assumes that the benefits are clear.[/quote]

I was not suggesting scrapping the laws on cars - simply pointing out that the responsible usually end up paying and the irresponsible ...don't, hence the hikes in insurance premiums (for those who bother!) linked to the increasing numbers of accidents involving uninsured drivers, or dodgy claims for whiplash.

Re: compulsory microchips

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:25:51 GMT

[quote user="Kishor Mahind"]

"The chips used are tiny and are implanted beneath a dog's skin. They contain a unique code number, the dog's name, age, breed and health as well as the owner's name, address and phone number."

Never knew m/chip contains all these details!!!

[/quote]

No maybe not, but maybe it's about time they should? Given that you can get micro SD cards that can hold your entire music collection, photos etc. it shouldn't be too taxing to have a chip that could contain say owner's mobile and email address?

Re: compulsory microchips

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:23:31 GMT

Compulsory micro-chipping would be a step in the right direction and could prevent a lot of problems if a/ the police have more powers and b/ they are able to put in the man-hours in to policing it. If the police were allowed to do random checks of dogs to see whether microchipped and had the power to seize any dog that was not microchipped - this could solve the problem of undesirable dogs very quickly. Owners could get their dog back only after a/ having them microchipped and b/ after paying a hefty fine.

This law should apply to all breeds of dog, then you haven't got to worry about the is or isn't it a pit bull nonsense.

Re: compulsory microchips

Bob Russell — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:12:27 GMT

Sadly - because they are fecking eejits!!!

Re: compulsory microchips

Mark Holmes — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:00:13 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]

It would be nice if every dog (and cat, and stray parrot) had a microchip but I am sick to death of politicians trotting this out as a panacea for all dog-related issues.Responsible owners already microchip their dogs - and keep the details up to date because they care about their pets - irresponsible owners won't bother. Microchips won't prevent dog attacks - and unless someone with a scanner is present at the incident, they won't aid in catching the dog/owner involved. It is compulsory to tax, MOT and insure your car - but the irresponsible car owners simply ignore the law - why should irresponsible dog owners be any different. We get a significant number of strays with microchips, but the owner hasn't kept their details up to date - so the chip is useless. The average "status dog" owner is likely to IMHO not be particularly good at notifying petlog everytime he moves to a new flat or sofa surfs round his mates houses. It smacks of politicians wanting to be seen to be "doing something" - even if the something isn't actually going to deal with the problem. I am also sick to death of the media lumping the word "irresponsible" with dog-owner all the time - in the same way they do with "fat-cat bankers" or "feral youths". Rant over

[/quote]

I don't think anyone has suggested it is a panacea for all dog related issues, there will always be strays but it will be an improvement on the current situation. You equate it to insuring a vehicle, some cars have no MOT or insurance but the law significantly improves the situation and as nobody is suggesting a repeal the law on car insurance one assumes that the benefits are clear.

Re: compulsory microchips

Utlendigur — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:36:34 GMT

Re: compulsory microchips

bob lehner — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:53:17 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

bviously Lord Renton is a very clever man and has his finger on the pulse of the modern world!

Sadly as a life peer he is unlikely to be cut come the revolution. What a tos**r!

[/quote]

I repeat my quote on the other forum on DNA testing:

Bob Russell:

I still feel the only way forward is compulsory chipping and neutering of all Staffies and Staffie types by six months of age! The broad head is easy to identify in almost all cases!

Report in the Daily Telegraph on debate in the House of Lords yesterday re poss Govt plans for compulsory microchipping of all dogs:

'Lord Renton of Mount Harry, a former Conservative minister, urged the Government to think carefully before insisting on compulsory microchipping because many dogs “took badly” to having a chip inserted'

Give me strength.... how do fecking eejits like that end up in the House of Lords ???

Re: compulsory microchips

patrick murphy — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:53:08 GMT

he is gone

Re: compulsory microchips

Mark Holmes — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:49:46 GMT

He is obviously misinformed about microchips let's inform him - http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/ronald-renton/26700

Re: compulsory microchips

Clive Ansell — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:37:48 GMT

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="plantagenet"]

What are the general thoughts about compulsory microchips?

[/quote]

The sooner the better IMO!

[/quote]

Me too!

[/quote]

Me 3

Re: compulsory microchips

Cat Henstridge — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:22:38 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="plantagenet"]

What are the general thoughts about compulsory microchips?

[/quote]

The sooner the better IMO!

[/quote]

Me too!

Re: compulsory microchips

Richard Carter — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:18:53 GMT

Re: compulsory microchips

patrick murphy — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:54:35 GMT

I actually pursued this with my mp, suggesting that compulsory microchipping would be a great start to identification of animals for dangerous dogs etc., but was told in a letter from the then Labour junior minister that because of the vast variety of microchips in the EU, it would be impossible?he obiviosly does not get ISO.

Re: compulsory microchips

Kishor Mahind — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:29:35 GMT

"The chips used are tiny and are implanted beneath a dog's skin. They contain a unique code number, the dog's name, age, breed and health as well as the owner's name, address and phone number."

Never knew m/chip contains all these details!!!

Re: compulsory microchips

Bob Russell — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:54:40 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]

What are the general thoughts about compulsory microchips?

[/quote]

The sooner the better IMO!

Re: compulsory microchips

plantagenet — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:03:05 GMT

What are the general thoughts about compulsory microchips?

Re: compulsory microchips

Bob Russell — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:27:18 GMT

Obviously Lord Renton is a very clever man and has his finger on the pulse of the modern world!

Sadly as a life peer he is unlikely to be cut come the revolution. What a tos**r!

Re: compulsory microchips

Lorna McHardy — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:19:25 GMT

Lord Renton has obviously given the matter some very careful thought. I'd love to know his considered opinions on other matters as well. I'm sure they'd be incredibly valuable.

Re: compulsory microchips

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 08:41:05 GMT

Seriously? That's the best Lord Renton could come up with?