Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

argyro koukouseli — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 11:51:21 GMT

no offence taken..apart from really old and ancient guys, black humour is working for me also!seriously our economy is so bad that we could use a "solon" to help us through but thats another topic....

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 11:02:07 GMT

[quote user="argyro koukouseli"]

for the record..solon was not sentenced to death,he died old by natural causes and his laws resulted in the prosperity of the city of athens.

[/quote]

sounds like you could do with him back then!

PS the red light thing relates to the propensity for cyclists to disobey red traffic lights and think they are above the law which enrages those motorists who sit there waiting when there is no traffic coming from the other direction. It could be interpreted as breaking the law or using ones common sense depending on your interpretation. This of course would be difficult for you to comprehend as no-one seems to obey any traffic laws of any sort in Greece anyway. (no offence intended it is British sense of humour)

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

argyro koukouseli — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:32:14 GMT

sorry but i didnt get this....who has to defend himself to whom and for what ?also the red light think....sorry....its all greek to me

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

argyro koukouseli — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:22:22 GMT

for the record..solon was not sentenced to death,he died old by natural causes and his laws resulted in the prosperity of the city of athens.

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Malcolm Ness — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:03:18 GMT

[quote user="argyro koukouseli"]it was Skiathos.[/quote]

Solon tried that defence too. They didn't believe him.

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 09:56:42 GMT

I nontheless invoke it to justify jumping red lights on my bike when the road is clear.

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

argyro koukouseli — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 09:52:42 GMT

it was Skiathos.

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Malcolm Ness — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 09:47:06 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]"Laws are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools." (Solon, the Lawmaker of Athens, d. 559 BC).[/quote]

A defence so weak that it hasn't been used since 559BC when some lawyer called Solon was sentenced to death in Athens!

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 09:04:07 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Sadly it is against the law

[/quote]

"Laws are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools." (Solon, the Lawmaker of Athens, d. 559 BC).

PS If any one reading this thread is from any governing body and is planning to use its contents to take legal action I was lying - I never dispense out of date drugs.

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

argyro koukouseli — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:17:44 GMT

geek... and imagine that i am greek geek myself!

To me shelters should work with no OOD medicines mainly cause there are many animals living together and one cat withbad ears can easily turn out to be 20 cats with bad ears in no time if not treated properly...

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:41:57 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I really don't see there would be a problem so long as you explain that they are out of date and therefore may not be as efficacious and preferably get them to sign a form to this effect or at the very least make a record in their clinical notes and have another member of staff as a witness, its got to be better than no treatment. I have a number of clients who are poor but decent people who otherwise struggle to treat their pets and are very grateful for me keeping expired drugs for them including a retired pharmacologist![/quote]

Sadly it is against the law

From the Veterinary Medicine Regulations 2011:

Classification, supply and possession of the product
7.—(1) Schedule 3 (classification and supply, wholesale dealers and sheep dip) has effect.
(2) Any person who supplies a veterinary medicinal product that has passed its expiry date is
guilty of an offence.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/2159/pdfs/uksi_20112159_en.pdf

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Clive Ansell — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:22:06 GMT

[quote user="argyro koukouseli"]

DURING MY SUMMER VACATIONS IN A GEEK ISLAND I VISITED A CAT SHELTER,RUNNED BY THE MOST LOVELY ENGLISH WOMAN WHO DID A GREAT JOB .

[/quote]

Was it Kefalonia ??

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Clive Ansell — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:20:04 GMT

I have worked on some of the Greek islands, but not any Geek islands??

No, these drugs if they are prescription only medicines should only be used under the direction of a veterinary surgeon.

If you had the choice of treating a cats bad ears with out of date ear drops, or no drops at all, surely the OOD option has to be better ??

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

argyro koukouseli — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:07:18 GMT

DURING MY SUMMER VACATIONS IN A GEEK ISLAND I VISITED A CAT SHELTER,RUNNED BY THE MOST LOVELY ENGLISH WOMAN WHO DID A GREAT JOB .SHE HAD LOTS OF EXPIRED DRUGS SEND TO HER FROM UK BUT SHE DIDNT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE FOR AND HOW TO ADMINISTRATE THE DRUGS.WE SAT DOWN AND WROTE INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO USE THE DRUGS AND STILL SHE CALLS ME FOR INSTRUCTIONS.....BUT IS IT OK TO USE THEM WITHOUT EVEN TAKING A VETS ADVICE?AND DID I DO THE RIGHT THINK BY HELPING HER THIS WAY?

CAUSE CHARITY TO ME IS NOT TREATING THE ANIMALS WITH EXPIRED DRUGS.REAL CHARITY IS TO GIVE AWAY SOMETHING THAT IS STILL OF COMPLETE VALUE.

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Ian Mostyn — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:00:35 GMT

There were a couple of letters in this weeks Vet Record on the subject but the basic jist was that out of date medicines should not be sent abroad as they will often get rejected at the border posts. Sending money instead was the preferred choice. Books and equipment are possibly a different thing though.

Ian

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Clive Ansell — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:39:24 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

No freebies for chavs on benefit though they're the ones who come back and bite you.

[/quote]

I would charge them and their Staffies double

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:27:19 GMT

[quote user="KMurphy"]

I'm too much of a wimp to offer OOD drugs to clients who can't pay - I'd be terrified they'd sue me if there was any reaction that might possibly in some way be remotely attributed to the medication. I'm not sure where the VDS stand on that.

[/quote]

I really don't see there would be a problem so long as you explain that they are out of date and therefore may not be as efficacious and preferably get them to sign a form to this effect or at the very least make a record in their clinical notes and have another member of staff as a witness, its got to be better than no treatment. I have a number of clients who are poor but decent people who otherwise struggle to treat their pets and are very grateful for me keeping expired drugs for them including a retired pharmacologist! No freebies for chavs on benefit though they're the ones who come back and bite you. I may draw the limit on 3 years out of date insulin though.

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Bob Russell — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:23:20 GMT

[quote user="KMurphy"]

[quote user="robloxley"]I can imagine the UK having major issues with someone trying to import, say, OOD African drugs into the UK...[/quote]

I understand your point. It's just a pity for the WVS as it is all charitable work that they do; they're not selling the medication in other countries. They will still accept medications right up to the expiry date, they're just not allowed to accept them after that. They can only accept analgesics, antibiotics etc, nothing for treating longterm illnesses, unfortunately.

[/quote]

Yup! It tends to be those that you try to help most that come back and bite you on the b*m!

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

KMurphy — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:16:31 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]I can imagine the UK having major issues with someone trying to import, say, OOD African drugs into the UK...[/quote]

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:13:51 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

I guess they may come up against problems importing OOD drugs into another country. Certainly I can imagine the UK having major issues with someone trying to import, say, OOD African drugs into the UK...

[/quote]

It's difficult to imagine a scenario where a country so poorly developed that their veterinary services are relying on imported out of date drugs would give hoot about what was imported but then you just have to think of India which would have some regulation just for the sake of bureaurocracy. However, you'd have thought they have more to worry about with fake drugs being produced in their own country for the human population than a few animals getting some out of date drugs which are still better than what they are producing themselves.

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Rob Loxley — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 13:39:56 GMT

[quote user="KMurphy"]We regularly send returned drugs to the Worldwide Veterinary Service but were sent a letter last year advising that they could no longer accept out-of-date drugs. I think it was VMD regulations that were to blame but I don't have the letter to hand so can't confirm this. [/quote]

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 13:10:49 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

Many practices sell out of date prescription diets as reduced price, is this OK too??

[/quote]

I can't see there is any issue at all with this so long as the client is warned and accepts that it is past its use by date which is largely only because its not in the interest of the manufacturer to prove it lasts longer rather because it doesn't. Most of our out of date food goes to the local CP or RSPCA and they are very grateful for it. I have a part box of Durammune vaccines I've been rationing because of the current supply situation but I've rationed them too well and they're a few days out of date. Does this mean they work any less well than the day before the use by date - obviously not. Would I be censured for using them - probably!

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Clive Ansell — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 11:20:21 GMT

One of my regular practices has a box full of out of date and opened (canaural, fuciderm etc) drugs that are given or sold very cheaply to local charities and sometimes to clients with no money (those who genuinely cannot afford treatment, not those who just whine about fees but roll up in >£50k vehicles). Is this acceptable, given that the alternative is no treatment at all? These are all licences veterinary products, just out of date, near date, or opened.

Many practices sell out of date prescription diets as reduced price, is this OK too??

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

KMurphy — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 10:45:42 GMT

We regularly send returned drugs to the Worldwide Veterinary Service but were sent a letter last year advising that they could no longer accept out-of-date drugs. I think it was VMD regulations that were to blame but I don't have the letter to hand so can't confirm this. Out-of-date drugs are now binned, unfortunately.

Re: Passing out of date drugs to overseas charities

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 10:44:24 GMT

CBA to sign in as anon. I just thought it was illegal to sell out of date drugs and if they are disposed of they must be disposed of through the correct channels. I have 'given away' OOD drugs to wildlife cases. I would think you are just giving them to the charity it should be ok?

Would be nice to have it confirmed as a suitable route. Do they just want sealed packs or will they even take the 8ml left in the bottle of Tardak.........