Over supply of vets?

Re: Over supply of vets?

Hanna Bennett — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:00:16 GMT

I have friends in HR who have spent the last two years teaching me how to interview, which resulted in the last two times we have employed vets being very happy with the results. We also now incorporate a 'practical' element into our interview as well which granted is usually just performing a couple of simple consults while being observed, but allows you to get a feel for how they interact with the owners/pets. And at the end of the day if you get it wrong you also have 3 months probationary period to determine whether they are suitable for a permanent position.

Re: Over supply of vets?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:50:57 GMT

Just thinking though - I find that 1-3 years experience can be harder to judge. Some people have got over that initial fear, have learnt the communication and team-working skills of this job, have been allowed to challenge themselves and are thriving and becoming a 'good vet'. However, there are others who have not been able to undertake anything other than basic tasks (the boss does anything complicated) and who probably have less confidence and ability than they did when they qualified. How can you tell the difference at interview?

Re: Over supply of vets?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:44:44 GMT

absolutely - the thing they need most is your time and patience and if circumstances don't allow that then it would be wrong to employ one.

Re: Over supply of vets?

Hanna Bennett — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:41:43 GMT

yep new grads can be really rewarding to see grow but I have too much respect for this profession to ask one to come and work for me in a new building when we have yet to iron out the kinks!

Re: Over supply of vets?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:33:51 GMT

Thanks Wynne and Hanna. The lady who is leaving came to us as a new grad 2 1/2 years ago and has done really well, so, as rest of us are 10+ years qualified, I think it is a pretty good environment for a new grad. Someone has to give them a chance to learn eh? Having said that, they need to have basic competencies from day one....

However, if someone with experience fancies the job, that would be handy! lol!

Re: Over supply of vets?

Hanna Bennett — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:22:29 GMT

Gillian - good luck - we have had what i would consider good candidates if i could cope with a new grad right now so hopefully you will be successful soon.
And Hannah - i thought it was interesting as we had quite a few Nottingham grads apply in August last year who again looked promising, and tho at the time we were due to move premises so were definitely not looking for a new grad i was tempted to interview some of them to see what they looked like. Have had grads from London, Bristol, Glasgow and Liverpool apply so pretty much full spectrum of the rest, no to mention the now seemingly obligatory long list of applications from newly qualified European vets.

Re: Over supply of vets?

Julian Earl — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:15:13 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Hanna Interesting point about Nottingham-I thought their approach would produce good new grads-and itseems I'm right

Wynne

[/quote]

I was very impressed when I saw their curriculum when they were starting up. Perhaps the proof of this pudding is indeed very good eating. (I think that's clear?!)

Re: Over supply of vets?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:11:10 GMT

Hanna Interesting point about Nottingham-I thought their approach would produce good new grads-and itseems I'm right

Wynne

Re: Over supply of vets?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:09:25 GMT

Good luck Gillian

Wynne

Re: Over supply of vets?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:38:57 GMT

Seeing as from this morning I am now looking for a new vet, I hope there are plenty of applicants out there! I suppose that as our position is suitable for someone with expeience or a new grad, we may not be too bad!

Re: Over supply of vets?

Clive Ansell — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:06:11 GMT

I recently had a conversation with a 2011 grad where she said 10% of her year are still looking for their first job.

I think the future looks particularly grim for new grads; there are too many coming through the schools with the inevitable result that there are too few jobs, and salaries and working conditions will be driven or kept down. Coupled with the huge debts some will have, it ain't looking too rosy. I was working with a 2010 grad recently that has £75000 of student debt which she thinks will never be paid off.

Re: Over supply of vets?

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:53:31 GMT

The Spanish system is - If you want to be a vet, doctor, lawyer etc, go to university and get the degree. The selection then occurs after qualification. I was told by Spanish graduate that 5000 qualify as vets every year (this does seem a lot) and the only way to get a job in Spain was to be related to another vet, set up somewhere or emigrate.

Thinking round the problem, we could all go part time, earn less than the repayment threshold (£21000) and have your debt wiped out anyway after 25 years. The hassle would be affording that camping trip to Cornwall once a year, once you've paid the RCVS/VDS/CPD providers etc etc etc

Neil

Re: Over supply of vets?

Mark Holmes — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:13:29 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Mark Holmes"] In the longer term it should reduce those wanting to study and rebalancing the supply.[/quote]

Not sure that this will have an effect - there are plenty of non-vocational courses and vocational courses with poor employment prospects that stiill fill.

A much more important factor is the university "block vote" on RCVS council. To the vet schools, students = income and the more the merrier. They don't really give a damn what happens to their cash cows once they qualify and they certainly aren't going to do anything to limit the financial viability of their own institutions by cutting back on student numbers.

[/quote]

Absolutely, I said should not would! No just look at Law students right now. The country is packed to the hilt with Law grads the bulk of whom cannot get a job in law. At least Law is a degree which transfers. We are heading for a country with the best qualified checkout assistants and shelf stackers in the world. I have visions of our shopping being totted up by mental arithmatic and the shelves being arranged according to Dewey Decimal classification.

Re: Over supply of vets?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:58:00 GMT

Cross ref to previous thread on 3 * privately educated girls According to what I've been told,poor pay is a major reason boys are put off becoming veterinary surgeons

I can see the profession becoming dominated by corporates who will employ well off young ladies whose university fees were paid by wealthy parents for a few years before they marry someone in the City-the experience of career veterinarians will be lost Supply and demand will be balanced by short career length

I'm very sad at the prospect

Wynne

Re: Over supply of vets?

Malcolm Ness — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:42:37 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"] In the longer term it should reduce those wanting to study and rebalancing the supply.[/quote]

Not sure that this will have an effect - there are plenty of non-vocational courses and vocational courses with poor employment prospects that stiill fill.

Re: Over supply of vets?

Mark Holmes — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:15:56 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"] Part Time working and a debt of £60.000 will mean that salaries for new graduates will have to increase?[/quote]

In a free market economy, the very opposite will happen. More vets = more competition with the consequence of downward pressure on prices. I'm afraid that the prospects for those qualifying with substantial debt looks gloomy indeed.

[/quote]

Yes that was my opinon, at least in the short term. In the longer term it should reduce those wanting to study and rebalancing the supply. Although I fear there will always be too many people wanting to work with something cuddly.

Re: Over supply of vets?

Malcolm Ness — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:04:14 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"] Part Time working and a debt of £60.000 will mean that salaries for new graduates will have to increase?[/quote]

Re: Over supply of vets?

plantagenet — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:33:32 GMT

Can we accommodate all the EU vets who want to work here?

I'm not sure I totally buy the female vets work part time arguement - many seem only to work part time for a few years.

Re: Over supply of vets?

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 00:09:41 GMT

The profession was removed from the protected register late last year, so non EU vets will have a tougher time getting jobs here. There is also an increase in ladies working with an inevitable increase in part time/job share which should mean there will be enough jobs for UK graduates.

The other trend I've noticed in 22 years is the number of large animal jobs. They were scarce 20 years ago, now the Vet Record is full of them.

However the elephant in the room is student debt. Part Time working and a debt of £60.000 will mean that salaries for new graduates will have to increase?

Guessing as a locum vet with large animal experience, I should be in clover, but our eldest son is looking at engineering, however our Doctor friends daughter and our engineer friends daughter both want to be a vet, so I'm probably suffering the Monty Pythons 'It was beter in my day syndrome'

Neil

Re: Over supply of vets?

plantagenet — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 22:34:20 GMT

Yes - to the detriment of the profession. Too many vets for the same work means that more must be obtained from each client to keep practices afloat = higher prices.

Will it end where we work part time as vets and fill in with other jobs to make up income.

Look at the thickness of the register compared with 20 years ago.

Pitty the poor new grads with their loans.