why do we do it?

Re: why do we do it?

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:36:27 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

hahahahaha - that did make me laugh!

In my limited experience, veterinary practices with absent bosses don't do so well...... but maybe if you're not worried about the bottom line that wouldn't matter.

[/quote]

No, you're quite right, they don't....*remembers years back in Saudi Arabia...*

Re: why do we do it?

Claire Fisher — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:03:05 GMT

I'd pack a bag and travel until I ran out of places to go which I think could take a long time!

After that I like the idea of going back to university, maybe working a couple of days a week alongside studying.

Must go buy a lottery ticket!

Re: why do we do it?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 16:30:37 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

I would start with a long holiday. Find out how long it takes to get bored!

I have worked full time since I left school, have had a handful of days off sick in 25 years and would love to find out what it is like to be bored!

[/quote]

Well it took me about 3 weeks. I worked flat out until the day I retired - finished my last call at 7.00 pm and went home thinking 'That's it'.

Started locuming within a very short time.....

[/quote]

3 weeks more like 3 hours! Unless I'm undertaking some all-day strenuous physical exercise, ideally skiing/snowboarding or cycling (and there's a limit to how much of that I can do) I'm going stir crazy after one day off. On holiday there's only a certain number of picturesque hilltop villages I can visit before I realise I am only doing it to appease my family and/or just for the sake of it. The thought of retirement and not learning something new every day fills me with dread, I would have to bow out very progressively or be carried out in a box.

Re: why do we do it?

George Cooper — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 16:01:31 GMT

What a fascinating set of questions and replies from all you guys and gals! Fair set me thinking, I can tell you. And given the last ten years [ and before, too] of my professional life I am able to contribute a few thoughts.

Having been a partner for the best part of 25 years in a middle-sized county town I was very much known as George, the Vet, whatever it was that I got involved in. That said, the practice was absolutely my focus and my joy despite 3am caesars and foalings and gastric torsions on dogs that had consumed gargantuan portions of fish, chips AND vinegar. The practice was the reason for being, and around it revolved all family events and social events though it was usually possible to swap duties as required.

Being George the vet opened many doors not only for myself and the family, but also in many of the activities outside the confines of the surgery per se. This was a most useful, if unexpected bonus and was to the benefit of many charity events where getting adverts and sponsorships locally was made so much easier by "knowing the right people", nudge nudge, wink wink. One could avoid the career "no-you-can't-do-that-ers" by bypassing them and accessing the people at the top. It worked on local radio many times, again facilitating hard to come by publicity for some event or other.

Back to family - by owning the practice we were able to set in motion certain systems which minimised the sacrifices needed - by acquiring telephone answerers so that other halves were not imprisoned in the house as just one example. Another would be the employment of managerial staff to free up partner's time... ... ...and so on.

As life then took a different turn I left the 24/7 requirement of being a practice owner/partner and did a fair bit of travelling doing consultancy work. This required absence from home, many miles on motorways stuck in traffic, very late nights and many other less than positive experiences. However - the lack of overnight duties, the weekend working and so on was a bit of a bonus.

In recent years I have worked in a job-share situation, literally split down the middle with the Boss. We do no nights, and have passed our Saturday mornings over to the OOH service provider. I no longer own or have a share in the practice either. This sounds like the situation that many of you would like to attain, at some stage. Firstly, being without night duty, and without any weekend work is simply bliss, in that I can leave the surgery in darkness at 6.30, switch my own lights off, and drive home! The second and even more fantastic thing is that I no longer give a stuff about VAT, or the drug order, or whether the phone is answered within 15 rings, or H&S or any other crappy red tape that is or has yet to be invented to annoy us. I still get to do what I really enjoy - squeezing anal glands, stroking new puppies, cuddling great big soppy floppy labradors on the floor beside them, talking to the cat instead of the owner, giving a cat a pill and have an owner say "well bugger me", catching escapee budgerigars - and so it goes on. In this practice the one thing that makes it all rather more enjoyable/endurable is that we do NOT have a rule that says we must be nice to all clients, so if a client succeeds in invading my nostrils I can and will be just as snotty as I feel I need to be. THAT is a huge positive. And if the phone goes un-answered for whatever reason, the response is "they'll ring back in a minute". Bliss. And don't get me started on sacking clients... ... .. .. just SO, SO satisfactory.

Downsides? Yep, there are. Perhaps these are personal. I have found that having half my time "off" so to speak leaves a hole in the activity profile, and the motivation to get out and find something is not the easiest thing I have had to tackle. Still working on that one, despite having a variety of interests. being in a new area where I am not George the Vet has made this more of a protracted journey. That said, however, those things that have started up and are enjoyed hugely are because I am "George who plays a guitar" for instance, and not George the Vet who also happens to play a guitar.

I suppose my conclusions are really written into all of the above - but being a vet, and being settled in your own practice is a real godsend for all sorts of things. Having more "leisure time" requires work, unless one is fortunate to have ready made hobbies, alternative employments, social groups to get involved with. Outside my veterinary work my chief "job" was being support and carer for wives and family - and when those have gone, the change can be tricky to replace as they are almost as full time as a job as a vet!!

Would I do it again - you bet. Even with lottery funding, given my state of understanding now, I would certainly own and run my own place - but ensure that I could afford to employ those who would relieve me of all the crap jobs that exist.

Unless I went travelling... ... ... ...(says he who, in his dotage, has just acquired a BMW Z4 as a real bargain.... oh yes!)

George

Re: why do we do it?

bob lehner — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:28:11 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

I would start with a long holiday. Find out how long it takes to get bored!

I have worked full time since I left school, have had a handful of days off sick in 25 years and would love to find out what it is like to be bored!

[/quote]

Well it took me about 3 weeks. I worked flat out until the day I retired - finished my last call at 7.00 pm and went home thinking 'That's it'.

Started locuming within a very short time.....

Re: why do we do it?

Bob Russell — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:18:59 GMT

I would start with a long holiday. Find out how long it takes to get bored!

I have worked full time since I left school, have had a handful of days off sick in 25 years and would love to find out what it is like to be bored!

Stressed? Yup plenty of that but boredom? A chance would be a fine thing!

Re: why do we do it?

Mark Holmes — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:18:11 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

If I won the lottery I would go back to university and spend the rest of my life studing those subjects I have developed an interest in since last time I applied. French or another language and something arty English Literature, the classics, history. Whatever just as long as I kept learning new stuff.

[/quote]

And Ski, I forgot Ski. LOTS OF SKIING.

Re: why do we do it?

Holly Norman — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:10:43 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Holly Dale"]I am already getting fed up of being told what drugs/equipment to use by the higher powers in management (who, incidentally, have never worked in the veterinary field and once said "I don't even like animals, innit"[/quote]

I can't be the only one hoping you update your profile so we can see who this employer is....

You could always come and work for me - complete clinical freedom and a 4 day week!

[/quote]

Clinical freedom? Four day week? Blimey, these things must surely only exist as pie-in-the-sky dreams!

I would love to reveal my mysterious employer but I feel that they may already be notorious in the veterinary world! If it helps to narrow it down, not only am I sole charge of my own branch but I regularly do saturday consults (alone) at two other branches and am regularly expected to be on call (alone) at their main hospital which covers fifteen other branches! I do now have a back up on call (occasionally) after explaining to my area manager that "No, I couldn't just have a go at a GDV", nor could I just "read how to do it in a book".

Ah the joy!

If anyone is looking for new employees I'm in the East Anglia region (better not say any more than that......apart from ...help!)

Re: why do we do it?

Rob Davis — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:23:04 GMT

[quote user="Lorna McHardy"]Ok back onto topic. If a person were to suddenly get another source of income over and above what they earn now and would see them secure, having to work much less hours, would they give up the vet work? Just curious.....[/quote]

I would love to have more time to devote to improving our smallholding - we've been at it for just over a year and it's difficult finding enough hours in the day. However, even if I won the lottery, I don't think I'd want to give up my job altogether. Working 3 days a week and no on-call sounds good...

Re: why do we do it?

Hanna Bennett — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:17:30 GMT

or me... we do like animals!

on second thoughts go work for Gillian, she has more time to support you right now!

Re: why do we do it?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:14:45 GMT

[quote user="Holly Dale"]what a muppet.[/quote]

I wouldn't say that - I knew what you meant!

I can't be the only one hoping you update your profile so we can see who this employer is....

You could always come and work for me - complete clinical freedom and a 4 day week!

Re: why do we do it?

Holly Norman — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:11:13 GMT

[quote user="Hanna Bennett"]

we actually had an assistant ask to join the 'partnership' (it was a limited company at the time) and when asked the reason she replied 'cos i don't want to work so hard'

have never laughed so hard in all my life...

[/quote]

You're right!- just read my original post back! what a muppet.

I am sure that owning your own practice would be even harder and involve working longer hours than I do now but at least it would all be mine!

I am already getting fed up of being told what drugs/equipment to use by the higher powers in management (who, incidentally, have never worked in the veterinary field and once said "I don't even like animals, innit"

Re: why do we do it?

Hanna Bennett — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:21:00 GMT

we actually had an assistant ask to join the 'partnership' (it was a limited company at the time) and when asked the reason she replied 'cos i don't want to work so hard'

have never laughed so hard in all my life...

Re: why do we do it?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:18:08 GMT

I know.

Amazing how many people think things get easier when you get to be the boss though eh?

Re: why do we do it?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:59:31 GMT

Why do you think I put the wink in

Wynne

Re: why do we do it?

Mark Holmes — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:45:29 GMT

They say the best way to make a small fortune is to start with a big one!!

Re: why do we do it?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:42:27 GMT

hahahahaha - that did make me laugh!

In my limited experience, veterinary practices with absent bosses don't do so well...... but maybe if you're not worried about the bottom line that wouldn't matter.

Re: why do we do it?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:08:24 GMT

Gillian I suppose what she means is that with limitless funds it would be possible to equip a practice perfectly-hire managers to do all the bureaucratic tiresome stuff-hire enough veterinary surgeons to do allthe routine work-and just cherry-pick the interesting cases/nice clients to actually treat-wishfull thinking

Wynne

Re: why do we do it?

Lorna McHardy — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:50:27 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

[/quote]

Do it now. The OU, unfortunately, is increasing the fees just like everybody else, but still worth investing in if learning stuff is your thing!

Re: why do we do it?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:41:26 GMT

[quote user="Holly Dale"]In response to the last post, if i suddenly became completely financially secure then I would certainly cut down on the amount of hours I work![/quote]

[quote user="Holly Dale"]then open up my own practice! [/quote]

erm...aren't those two statements mutually exclusive?

Re: why do we do it?

Mark Holmes — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:51:00 GMT

Re: why do we do it?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:33:47 GMT

If I won the lottery I would probably work without pay for PDSA 2 or 3 days a week-and spend the rest of the time with my own animals

Wynne

Re: why do we do it?

Holly Norman — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:18:23 GMT

[quote user="Lorna McHardy"]

[quote user="Holly Dale"]

I think that I am probably better prepared than other new grads for this kind of situation.

[/quote]

I can't make up my mind whether the notion of a new graduate capable of sole charge is scary, or just impressive

[/quote]

Definitely not impressive- it's utterly terrifying! Nothing like doing surgery with Fossum propped up on the operating table or excusing yourself from a consult to frantically flick through all of your university notes!

In response to the last post, if i suddenly became completely financially secure then I would certainly cut down on the amount of hours I work! I would spend a year or 18mo jetting all over the country getting as much medical, surgical and emergency knowledge as I possibly could and then open up my own practice! I currently work ten hour days Monday to Friday, 1:3 weekends and one on-call night a week so any possibility of fewer hours would be a godsend!

Re: why do we do it?

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:36:39 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

Ok back onto topic. If a person were to suddenly get another source of income over and above what they earn now and would see them secure, having to work much less hours, would they give up the vet work? Just curious.....

[/quote]

Well, Mark, pretty much every vet in academia and industry has pretty much answered "yes" to your question. ;) sure i miss it. But i'm happily using my nostagiascope to only remember the good bits. :p

Re: why do we do it?

Lorna McHardy — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:49:21 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

That's a really good point. I've asked this question with other people, non-vets, largely triggered by a client who's an ex-parachute regiment man. He's retired, but always wears his badge and jacket and clearly he is an ex-paratrooper, not a pensioner. It made me think about other jobs - what about a doctor, or a shop assistant, a farmer, or a librarian, or sportsmen? Most people respond by saying that their job is their means of living and not who they are. I would guess that most of us as vets are defined by being a vet in the same way as the ex-paratrooper is defined by his time in the army. Perhaps that makes us different, but on a gloomier note, does it contribute to the suicide rate as well because we are so psychologically dependent on how we feel about who we are?

[/quote]

I think being defined by our work is, to some extent, externally imposed, but mostly just an individual character thing rather than a particular profession thing. One boss I had used to avoid telling people he's a vet, because as soon as they know, that is what the conversation is about unless they have no pets and don't like animals anyway. This is not something I'm familiar with from other professions - do teachers get told all about some stranger's children and how they're doing at school and how they've just aced maths but need some help with the English, as soon as they let on what they do for a living? Do lawyers get told all the intimate details of neighbour disputes at dinner parties?

On the other hand, I also knew a retired vet when I was a student, who told me that retiring was "like dying". He haunted his old practice like a ghost, poor guy. I will never be that person, because I'm actually not defined by my job, which, much as I love it (mostly), is what I do, not what I am. There's overlap, of course!