A Bit of fluff

Re: A Bit of fluff

Mark Holmes — Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:10:31 GMT

Well yes isn't it always? Or at least until the rings on anyway!!

Re: A Bit of fluff

Rob Davis — Sat, 21 Jan 2012 09:59:25 GMT

[quote user="james herriot lied"]Yes, but is it all just an act put on for the spouse's benefit? [/quote]

Re: A Bit of fluff

Kate Richardson — Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:20:58 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Despite my self-proclaimed grumpiness and lack of bed-side manner, I've just had a client who is quite frankly a pain in the nether regions, is a smart-Alec to point of annoyance, complains about the bills and has a dog which pisses on the display stands every time it comes in and with whom I am undeniably short, who was so pleased with the result of his dog's surgery he kissed me.[/quote]

LOL!!!

Re: A Bit of fluff

james herriot lied — Fri, 20 Jan 2012 19:53:11 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

I married a client which trumps kissing and proves I do have some charm in me somewhere!

[/quote]

Yes, but is it all just an act put on for the spouse's benefit?

Re: A Bit of fluff

bob lehner — Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:17:56 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"] married a client which trumps kissing and proves I do have some charm in me somewhere![/quote]

Me to - went to value her horse as part of her divorce settlement and ended up marrying her myself......10 years later we're still together (and the horse).

Re: A Bit of fluff

Mark Holmes — Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:38:42 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Despite my self-proclaimed grumpiness and lack of bed-side manner, I've just had a client who is quite frankly a pain in the nether regions, is a smart-Alec to point of annoyance, complains about the bills and has a dog which pisses on the display stands every time it comes in and with whom I am undeniably short, who was so pleased with the result of his dog's surgery he kissed me. On the other hand a most pleasant, grateful, good looking lady client who brings out all the charm I have in me, who pays without question has the most (only) delightful Shar-pei which has a carcinoma on a lung which is untreatable and just found out that her insurance company has shafted her so she can't claim the not inconsiderable amount she's paid so far, only promised to kiss me. Such is life.

[/quote]

I married a client which trumps kissing and proves I do have some charm in me somewhere!

Re: A Bit of fluff

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:18:58 GMT

Re: A Bit of fluff

Richard Carter — Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:10:03 GMT

just had a client who is known to be a bit short with the reception staff tell me after a consult 'I (the client) am actually quite a nice person'. Think my 'fluff' may have dropped a bit but I wasn't conscious of behaving any different to any other client. Will have to be more careful with the body language next time!!

Re: A Bit of fluff

Kate Richardson — Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:32:12 GMT

IMO it was all above board until 'Holmes syndrome' was mentioned. That made it personal. Otherwise it is an interesting discussion

Re: A Bit of fluff

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 20 Jan 2012 01:00:46 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]As we're aware he doesn't need me to fight his battles but bloody hell whatever happened to a right of reply.[/quote]

Er, nothing has happed to the right to reply. It's alive and well. After all, that's what you have just done.

[quote user="David Mills"]Mr Guthrie you yourself are a proponent of the idea that it can be easy to misinterpret that written on a website.[/quote]

Indeed, I'm more than happy to retract a yellow card if I have misread something.

[quote user="David Mills"]Then wades in a Mr Holmes, smarting from previous - fair - criticism on another thread and his interpretation - because he is pissed off by the post, and in what I see as a pretty egotistical self-victimisation - is then taken as the only, and true, interpretation.[/quote]

No, that's not right, it is not "taken as the only, and true interpretation". It is simply my interpretation at this point in time, which as I have said before, could be wrong. It is why the right to reply DOES exist.

JGW has in fact exercised his right to reply. If I have misinterpreted his post, he didn't mention it, so for the moment, I have to assume that I didn't. Nevertheless, he did point out that I have not been even-handed with the yellow cards. I think he has a point there.

So Mr Mills, here is one for you:

It's for a number of things, including but not limited to:

[quote user="David Mills"]Mr Wray is an efficient user of words, and may over-estimate the intelligence of his audience.[/quote]

It was also pointed out to me that Mr Holmes himself has posted some pretty sarcastic, personal remarks, and perhaps deserves a yellow card himself. Yes perhaps. But I think in this case, it would be reasonable enough to argue that he was provoked, so I'm going to hold fire for the moment. Still, Mr Holmes (and anyone else), if you feel you have been 'flamed', do not fire back. Rise above it, and if needs be send me a private message.

[quote user="David Mills"]The yellow card is a disgrace, Mr Guthrie. Your judgement is wanting in this case.[/quote]

Objection noted.

Re: A Bit of fluff

David Mills — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:15:19 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

Except that on balance, I then read the post and the one that follows in the same way as Niall and Mark. And for that reason, a yellow card for pretty insulting remarks directed at another member, Mr Wray.

[/quote]

Now hold on a minute. Is this the Guardian?

Mr Wray may well have been inspired by the talk of theatre and 'fluff' on another thread and merely highlighted the extents to which this can go - the value added part which cost nothing of being a GP. As we're aware he doesn't need me to fight his battles but bloody hell whatever happened to a right of reply. Mr Guthrie you yourself are a proponent of the idea that it can be easy to misinterpret that written on a website. Mr Wray is an efficient user of words, and may over-estimate the intelligence of his audience.

What better highlighting of his possible misinterpretation as 'What's your point?'

Then wades in a Mr Holmes, smarting from previous - fair - criticism on another thread and his interpretation - because he is pissed off by the post, and in what I see as a pretty egotistical self-victimisation - is then taken as the only, and true, interpretation. Just because someone might take offence does not entail that they were right or justified at all in doing so.

Mr Wray proffered an explanation. But no! That ain't how the left works though. Someone is hurt by something somewhere! Bit disappointed it isn't racism but let's get him!

So we are left have instead with Mr Holmes interpreting it one way then Mr Taylor (hardly averse to fairly cutting posts himself - the RMB debate lest we forget) and various others sticking the boot in. Nothing like a clear cut case eh?

The yellow card is a disgrace, Mr Guthrie. Your judgement is wanting in this case.

Re: A Bit of fluff

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:56:50 GMT

[quote user="james herriot lied"]Is this the first one given?[/quote]

I'm trying to remember!

Re: A Bit of fluff

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:40:45 GMT

Well like most of us, Jonathan and Mark alike I assume, I wanted to become a vet because I liked/had empathy for/loved animals (take your pick) and had an interest in science and doing veterinary science put both together. My mother wanted me to be a doctor but even back as a callow youth I knew I didn't care much for people and again like many of our profession naively thought that being vet meant I could work with the species I respected and avoid the one I disliked. Well of course we all now know it doesn't work quite like that. I do my best to be nice to people but I don't suffer fools gladly and some of the idiots who like to think they know about their pets but actually know sod all, even less. I have to force myself to be nice sometimes and have to constantly remind myself that however little respect I have for the owner their pet is the reason why I'm here. I can't coo and gurgle over every pet and enter friendly banter with everyone, it is not me and it would seem very false if I tried, at least that's how I perceive it myself. Given the choice at the end of the day I would rather be known as that miserable b******d who we tolerate because he's is a good vet than for one person to say he's got a wonderful bedside manner but its all male bovine dung.

Re: A Bit of fluff

james herriot lied — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:30:24 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

And for that reason, a yellow card for pretty insulting remarks directed at another member

[/quote]

Is this the first one given?

Re: A Bit of fluff

Kate Richardson — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:59:15 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Surely there must be many in small animal practice who would empathise with Mark. I would imagine that many of even the best practitioners must struggle to keep up the theatre at the end of a long day. [/quote]

Absolutely

Re: A Bit of fluff

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:57:35 GMT

My reasons for yellow-carding Mr Wray:

In three minds about this thread:

[quote user="Lorna McHardy"]What's your point?[/quote]

First thought: yes, quite!

Then: still, it seems like the basis for an interesting discussion about an important point.

Would be a shame to stop the discussion entirely, though. Surely there must be many in small animal practice who would empathise with Mark. I would imagine that many of even the best practitioners must struggle to keep up the theatre at the end of a long day. Would it be more constructive to discuss whether anyone has any tactics for dealing with this scenario (other than changing jobs, thanks anyway Mr Wray).

Re: A Bit of fluff

Bob Russell — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 13:44:56 GMT

At work I talk and talk and talk! Clients expect it (or tolerate it!).

My wife cannot believe the difference. At home I grunt and say little. It is a performance and I like the term performance art. I often feel ill at ease in social situations. I like a quiet home life and consider myself really lucky that I am given support but space when I arrive back at the end of the day. The girls fight over who is going to make me that welcome cup of tea!

Perhaps I hide behind this 'persona' at work but over the years it has become the working me not the private me! We become actors to survive the pressures of business and dealing with the general public - however acting can be fun!

Enthusiasm does wane especially when tiredness catches up with you (especially by case forty). It can be hard work keeping up the act at times and I would say "Holmes Syndrome" is normal. With Mark's permission I would like to add this to my veterinary vocabulary!! Many thanks in advance!

A minority of the profession cannot adapt to this performance act and they can have a hard time.

Re: A Bit of fluff

Rob Davis — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 13:04:11 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]One of the other things we discussed at work was what should now be called Holmes syndrome, the lack of enthusiasm for the fortieth case.[/quote]

Ouch - a little below the belt! If you never feel some lack of enthusiasm for the fourtieth case of the day then you truly are as heroic as you seem to think.

I agree with Mark that consulting is a form of performance art. When my children sit in with me they are intrigued and amused at the different behaviours I exhibit with different clients. Sometimes (hopefully most of the time) the "performance" goes well, occasionally at the end of a consult I feel that it hasn't gone so well. This is nothing to do with the clinical issues. There are certainly days when I feel less enthusiastic than others (I can't believe that this isn't the case for most people). Hopefully on these days my "performance" will hide this from my clients, but putting on the performance becomes more draining.

I don't see this as a sign that I am not suited to life in practice, just that I am human...

Re: A Bit of fluff

Mark Holmes — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:27:07 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

Either way I wish we either we had the full story or that the bickering would stop.

Cheers,

Niall

[/quote]

There is no full story, as far as I'm aware. I made a comment that as far as I was aware was unremarkable and assumed would be familiar to a number of others. Somehow I have rubbed someone up the wrong way by it. I will not however just take a reaction like that without some form of appropriate response and I hope I've not offended anybody by it.

Re: A Bit of fluff

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:57:11 GMT

Hear hear Lorna

Niall I totally agree with you-the amount of vitriol is both astonishing and unnacceptable

Wynne

Re: A Bit of fluff

Bob Russell — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:54:49 GMT

Since when has a bit of humour and fun been unacceptable in general practice? A smile and a chat reduces client stress, often leads to more relaxed patients and an easier life.

A bit of fluff is not particularly harmful and using that horrible jargon 'can keep a client bonded' - so can be good for business!

Re: A Bit of fluff

Lorna McHardy — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:54:09 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

Hi Wynne,

I don't know if you're following the "Kelvin Mckenzie, Daily Moan today" thread but this conversation started there with JWray's statement to Mr Holmes as follows:

"... get out of general practice. If those who can do what you don't want to do and are not inclined to learn how to do, are sincere and have integrity in what they do then where's the problem?"

The full post from JWray is here: http://www.vetsurgeon.org/forums/p/10361/52924.aspx#52924 and the post, from Mr Holmes that is being referred to is here: http://www.vetsurgeon.org/forums/p/10361/52915.aspx#52915

I stand by the assertion that this is a personal attack by JWray on Mr Holmes, for Mr Wray to claim otherwise is disingenuous, anecdotes not withstanding. As I said in my previous post Mr Holmes must have done something to upset Mr Wray that we are not privvy to, surely no one could be that upset about Mr Holmes's initial post about the 40th client, I certainly didn't take it to be a marker that he should leave practice in the way that JWray has.

Either way I wish we either we had the full story or that the bickering would stop.

Cheers,

Niall

[/quote]

Can I 10-star this one?

Re: A Bit of fluff

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:46:17 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

I'm sure we've all endlessly heard 'Oh, you're a vet, how lovely, you must LOVE animals'. To which I'm inclined to say 'No - do dentists love teeth ? Do lawyers love piles of dusty paper ? Do accountants love sums, and even, do doctors love people ?' I like animals (mostly) and I find them and their diseases and relationships with people very interesting - but I don't think I actually love them.

Is it me ....?

[/quote]

me too ;-) I do love some of them (my own for example :-) ), like many others, but I loathe some as well. Mainly the very bad behaved dogs, but I think that's up to taste. But I am drawn to animals and could never walk past one if it's ill or injured, so there must be some kind of animal love....hmmmm...

To answer the op: Not too much fluff here, no decorated collars but fancy bandages...something like no yes no no yes yes.

Re: A Bit of fluff

bob lehner — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:04:11 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]To answer his question directly. Yes I do or rather have done those things or at least similar things. It really isn't me though, its an act to pander to the public's expectations.[/quote]

I agree with this.

I do feel that consulting is in some ways a 'performance art' and maintaining huge enthusiasm for the twentieth impacted anal gland of the day can be a problem for most of us I imagine (if not perhaps for JGW). However, I suppose the owner expects the vet to at least pretend that it is as fascinating and important as the first one of the day.

Is it me ....?

Re: A Bit of fluff

Niall Taylor — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 10:52:01 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]If I ever move into your area can we be partners (in the professional sense of course). I can see the bearded dragons with Graffiti, You can do the cherry eye ops (it went v well, thank-you)[/quote]

It's a deal! Glad to hear the op went well

Somebody really ought to republish that article, it's been very popular.

Niall