Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Dagmar Steele — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:31:11 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

True and I've seen a unusual number this Autumn but we just make an assumption is Bordatellosis without making a diagnosis and treat with antibiotics. It often occurs to me that if we had a cough we would just let it get better by itself. I wonder if we are a bit guilty of over-treating and should apply the same logic to dogs unless they are actually ill.

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We should only treat complicated cases with antibiotics after doing a culture and sensitivity testing. Dogs feeling ok with no signs of pneumonia should only receive medications like acetylcysteine or bromhexine to loosen the phlegm. Steroids may be of some benefit to ease the cough as well as hydrocone, but only if there is no suspected bacterial (super) infection. Having cited this from the last lecture I must admit I'm as guilty as most of us and hand out antibiotics to many affected dogs just to be on the safe side. My own dogs never needed antibiotics for any cough, it always went away without any treatment. But they were more closely monitored than my clients dogs.

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Dagmar Steele — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:18:20 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Are you talking about Bordatella here or parainfluenza virus? There are reports of severe disease in dogs from Pi virus. As for the OP, I had not even considered the possibility of canine Bordatella transmitting to people although I sometimes mention it is caused by the same family of bug that causes whooping cough. I incorporate Pi in my core vaccine course (when available!) and tell owners that that will give some protection and that intranasal Bordatella is only necessary if they're going to dog training classes, kennels or shows.

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Pi Virus as far as I remember. I do the same thing as you do, I incorporate the Pi in my vaccinations, there is not much of a price difference. Bordetella I only recommend for dogs doing shows, kennels, competitions.

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Julian Earl — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:14:48 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]

Wether to vaccinate or not seems a bit up to personal taste. In Germany it is considered a non-core vaccination and mainly offered to breeders, dogs that go into kennels and so on. Most of the cases are mild and self-limiting anyway. I have talked to an Australian colleague though who described very severe outcomes with a considerate mortality, so I think it also depends on location.

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When attending a CPL CPD session last year one of the subjects discussed was the pros and cons of vaccination. During the discussion a case report was cited of a lady on immunosuppressive therapy for cancer who had her dog sneeze the KC vaccine in her face immediately after administration. She suffered a life-threatening pneumonia due to the inhalation of the live Bordetella in the vaccine.

Re. the Pi vaccination you mention: do you mean the injectable? I have mentioned before that the rep for the vaccine company told us not to bother with the injectable Pi fraction because it was not protective. Okay, it could have been an attempt to encourage us to use the intranasal routinely but she knew we never had and had no plans to do so and I believe it was a genuine comment.

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:24:35 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"][quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[/quote] I have seen cases in certain areas where animals have contracted KC in parks, on walks etc from other dogs outside kennels/training/shows. Birmingham was probably the worst for frequency I've seen in the UK.

[/quote]

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

James Laidlaw — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:35:22 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] I incorporate Pi in my core vaccine course (when available!) and tell owners that that will give some protection and that intranasal Bordatella is only necessary if they're going to dog training classes, kennels or shows.

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:03:55 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]

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Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

David Mills — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:09:59 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

the damage Bordetella does to the dog's heart valves ???????????????????

[/quote]

New one on me. Source/citation?

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Stephen Courtney — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 13:44:19 GMT

[quote user="toby travis"]

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

I tell people who are worried that Kennel cough in people is extremely rare and is usually confined to the immunosuppressed eg cancer patients, people with immunodeficiencies and other nasty illnesses. I sometimes tell people that B bronchispetica is related to the bug that gives kids whooping cough

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Presumably when you tell people who are worried that is in response to their enquiry - not something you introduce. or a reason to suggest vaccination.

I'm happy to discuss the pros/cons of vaccination and don't mind that she was offered the vaccination - great, especially if there is plenty in the area. However, to suggest her children might contract the disease is over the top in my opinion.

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Sorry I should have made it more clear, I totally agree, the client was oversold, and quite frankly lied to. Leaves us all looking a bit shabby doesn't it?

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Dagmar Steele — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:00:54 GMT

At the moment I'm reading a lecture on kennel cough. The author states that infections of people with compromised immune system have been described and that dogs can shed infectious agents without having symptoms. Therefor she advises to avoid contact with people that undergo chemotherapy or had a transplant. Infections of cats and vice versa are possible.

To me this sounds as if there is a very small possibility that a human might get infected and we should mention it for the sake of being on the safe side. I wouldn't use it as an instrument to convince people to vaccinate their dogs. That sounds a bit like bullying to me....

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:41:34 GMT

What's the point of introducing the rare zoonotic aspect, when all you have to do is point out the damage Bordetella does to the dog's trachea and heart valves ???????????????????

Wynne

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:51:59 GMT

£100 for a vacc course? Nice...

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

toby travis — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:45:23 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

[/quote]

Presumably when you tell people who are worried that is in response to their enquiry - not something you introduce. or a reason to suggest vaccination.

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Claire Fisher — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:38:18 GMT

I mention the risk to immunocompromised people but not otherwise.

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Helen Wallace — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:22:47 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

But on the whole i find with the newer KC vaccinations, the dogs are much less likely to get the illness, or get it much more mildly.

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I'd agree with that. I always warn the owners that the dog can still contract it but the cases that do are always milder and recover faster. I tell the owners that when I give the vaccine and we rarely have complaints as a result.

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Stephen Courtney — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:17:02 GMT

As far as cost goes, we charge an extra £10.40 to add an intranasal kennel cough vaccine to the annual booster, or the puppy course. It costs rather more if they come in to have it done at a different appointment.

Currently i have seen about 25 appointments for coughing dogs in the last 3 weeks, most of whom i have diagnosed as kennel cough based on clinical presentation and history. We get regular outbreaks where i work, and many of these dogs seem rather unwell, so I recommend people include the kennel cough with their initial puppy booster .I also offer it to each annual booster appointment, and uptake is better with pups than adult dogs. i do warn people that it is a multifactorial disease, and the vaccine can fail but it can be awkward if a client returns with a clinical case in a vaccinated dog. these cases i report to VMD as an adverse reaction, and usually offer a free consultation to. my own dog, who has had a kennel cough vaccine every year for the last 3 years, is just getting over kennel cough.

But on the whole i find with the newer KC vaccinations, the dogs are much less likely to get the illness, or get it much more mildly.

Re: Kennel Cough as a zoonosis? Profiteering?

Helen Wallace — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:08:56 GMT

I see a lot of KC in this part of the country and have never advised vaccination to protect the owners. If they ask I'll tell them there is a theoretical risk but Bordetella isn't really life threatening, especially with antibiotics. There are other zoonosis that would worry me more...

Sounds like your sister in law was getting the hard sell. It is this kind of thing that gives vets a bad name.