how to get this pdf ????

Re: how to get this pdf ????

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:07:16 GMT

[quote user="SteveOwen"]I wasn't sneering. I was excusing my earlier comment.[/quote]

Uh? I'm afraid I don't get how the following comment is 'excusing my earlier comment'

[quote user="SteveOwen"]Hmmm. You are a vet who doesn't know how to access a paper? I find that hard to believe but, ok. Go to pubmed (google it), search for the paper, there will be a link to the publisher's website, where it will tell you how to access a PDF or full text article.[/quote]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Uncalled for. He asked for help.Don't sneer.[/quote]

[quote user="katja wagner"] Answers like Steve Owens are why i stopped posting on this forum ,makes my blood boil!

somebody asks for help and gets a patronising kick in the teeth![/quote]

I too read the post like EBH and Katja.

[quote user="SteveOwen"]I can't help it if that's how you interpret it. You have to accept that things don't always come across how they are intended on the Internet and you have to allow for that.[/quote]

Steve, at least three people have interpreted your post as patronising. To paraphrase your own words, would suggest that you need to accept that things don't always come across how they are intended on the Internet, and if you genuinely didn't mean for your post to appear patronising, then you have to allow for that and be more careful how you write it. Or at least follow up with a post saying 'sorry if my post read patronisingly, Jose, I didn't mean it that way', or something to that effect.

[quote user="jose targa"]Katja, i sometimes felt like you, but good answers (and usefull !!!), always win (as you can see)...that´s like in real life !!![/quote]

Jose, you are so right about that. Thank you for being a good sport. You have nothing to apologise for.

Katja (and anyone/everyone that has been posting less frequently for fear of being trampled on), I believe that some people are GENUINELY unaware of how their post (not specifically ones in this thread) can read as pretty, well, hurtful. Bear with me, I'm not allowing any more of it, and trying hard to educate everyone to the importance of thoughtful, considerate posts. So a) thank you for making your feelings known this time. It's important. It helps me change things, hopefully for the better, and b) please DO feel you can post again. I'm watching very closely!

Re: how to get this pdf ????

Kay Colquhoun — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:21:08 GMT

Jose, BSAVA members can access the entire JSAP archive online, as well as companion magazine, Congress Proceedings and Congress lecture podcasts. A reminder about which publications members can acces can be found here http://bit.ly/uobUQD - All the best with your research.

Re: how to get this pdf ????

mariette asselbergs — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 18:19:11 GMT

"if you're playing the radio/CDs in the operating theatre or staffroom you need licensing."

I think licensing is not enough, there have been cases of people being persecuted for copyright. Even somebody working on his own in a lab listening to music!

Mariette

Re: how to get this pdf ????

Rob Loxley — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 18:12:07 GMT

[quote user="SteveOwen"]I think it's ok as long as you're not playing it to clients Niall.[/quote]

Um, if you're playing the radio/CDs in the operating theatre or staffroom you need licensing.

Re: how to get this pdf ????

mariette asselbergs — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 17:58:37 GMT

I would like to put up some issues for this debate which I find very important having worked and taught vet students in Africa.

1. A lot of research is done with tax payer's money, yet the publishers (e.g. infamous Elsevier ) want the money. Why? Often the authors even have to pay to be published, do not receive any money from article requests,and do not even receive reprints these days! No money from article requests goes into research Steven.

2. I am a member of the BVA only because I want access to Vet Record and In Practice. They insist on sending me by urgent mail very expensive glossy paper journals which once read collect dust in big piles. I would be perfectly happy to just subscribe to online access and NOT receive the paper journals but this is (still) not an option.

3. I always found it very frustrating that my Mozambican vet students had no access to the vet journals, either in paper or online. The Faculty did not have the money for subscriptions. The smart ones did sometimes find ways to access article online by complicated searches looking for free publications which quoted an article, but for most students and vets there was no or limited access to up to date info.

Mariette

Re: how to get this pdf ????

SteveOwen — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 17:50:11 GMT

I think it's ok as long as you're not playing it to clients Niall. But I'm not sure why you presume I care - as I clearly said, I care about the future of veterinary research, not obeying the letter of the law for the sake of it.

Re: how to get this pdf ????

Niall Taylor — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 17:04:06 GMT

[quote user="SteveOwen"]If I quite fancied viewing a paper but it wasn't worth paying for access, I wouldn't access it. Simples![/quote]

Goodness me Steve, next you'll be saying that we shouldn't be playing the radio at work without paying the performing rights guys vast amounts of cash .

Oh, hang on...

Niall

Re: how to get this pdf ????

SteveOwen — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:22:12 GMT

If I quite fancied viewing a paper but it wasn't worth paying for access, I wouldn't access it. Simples!

Re: how to get this pdf ????

SteveOwen — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:20:06 GMT

So the publisher makes some money, and is happy to continue to publish veterinary journals, which we all need for vet med to progress. I give books and DVDs away, yes, this is legal. I don't copy them. I would lend a copy of a journal to a bona fide colleague, but I wouldn't copy it and I certainly wouldn't send or incite to receive a copy over the Internet. Anyway, my mistake, this isn't what the OP was suggesting and I am very sorry for assuming he was. As I say, I just get annoyed when people do this. There can't be much money in publishing vet journals and without them...well...I've read James Herriot.

Re: how to get this pdf ????

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:03:18 GMT

[quote user="SteveOwen"]I had presumed he knew how to access papers so was trying to bypass paying for access. It annoys me when people do this as it stifles veterinary research, which there is little money in as it is. I pay for my journal access, so should others.[/quote]

Steve - you have never borrowed or lent anyone a book or a DVD then?

I appreciate what you are saying but if I had a copy of the PDF and a colleague asked for a copy I would send it over. It's a bit different to putting the PDF up on a website for all to access FOC.

You never been in a position where you find a paper you'd quite like a look at but it's not worth paying for access to some obscure journal. To be honest to facilitate things I think once published after a period of time (year?) it should go into the public domain. Anyone know where the money goes when you pay to access a journal/article? I don't imagine the research gets a few pence in their bank account, I assume it goes to the publisher?

Re: how to get this pdf ????

Tim Cheyne — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 04:16:24 GMT

[quote user="jose targa"]

...i maybe have to apologize for my bad english .... ).

[/quote]

No need to apologise for your English, it is intelligible and far better than my Hispano-American 'Spanish'!

Just keep posting on the forum and help our discussions. New thoughts are always welcome.

Best wishes.

Tim.

Re: how to get this pdf ????

jose targa — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 21:47:55 GMT

Sorry, i forget to say one last thing: probably will be intresting as some others said, to have acces from this websyte to concrete papers with the permision of the authors, of course? just an idea...

Targa JV, Vela T: "Modified Meynard´s external skeletal fixator in pigeons. 6 clinical cases" Clin. Vet. Peq. Anim, 29 (3): 141-145, 2009

If somebody is intrested in this paper, i´ll send it for free (with the permision of the author: me)...well, is intresting if you want to practice your spanish !!!!

Best regards

Re: how to get this pdf ????

jose targa — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 21:17:55 GMT

Thanks all for your help, and once again wasn´t my intention to get nothing for free (well i think that i don´t have to apologize myself for this...i maybe have to apologize for my bad english or my ignorance!! jajaja).

There´s no reason, in my opinion, to apologize yourself too Mr. Owen. We´re both MRCVS (well...i´m overseas member...) and must be polite gentlemen.

Katja, i sometimes felt like you, but good answers (and usefull !!!), always win (as you can see)...that´s like in real life !!!

Thak you very much to everyone!

Re: how to get this pdf ????

Jill Nute — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 17:48:08 GMT

http://trust.rcvs.org.uk/library-and-information-services/join-the-library/ Joining this will give wide access to scientific literature for a very reasonable fee, & is open to all. Best wishes, Jill

Re: how to get this pdf ????

KathW — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:28:59 GMT

[quote user="SteveOwen"] I do wonder what he was taught at vet school though. I wouldn't have got past first year without such an ability, never mind graduated!

[/quote]

There was no internet when I was at Vet School either. I discovered pub med about six years ago and if I hadn't been on the particular cpd course I possibly still wouldn't know about it. If you haven't been taught or told about something It can be quite difficult to discover it - you can't ask about or google something that you don't know exists.

Pen+ paper + making lecture notes + 2nd hand textbooks sold on by those a year or two above was all we had ( and student houses were all cardboard boxes of course ) No printed notes or lectures to access online. Makes me wonder how we all qualified and managed in the real world.

Re: how to get this pdf ????

Alan Tevendale — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:12:10 GMT

Might end up getting pricy but I'm sure it would be possible to have online journal access on here. Arlo, do you know much about how we could go about this? I remmember a suggestion of a similar idea a few weeks ago.

Re: how to get this pdf ????

Tim Cheyne — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:04:21 GMT

There was no internet in the time that I was at vet school and the procedure was to photocopy or to write politely to the author(s) for a free reprint.

Much later I had to learn to access articles the hard way and, even though I sub-edit for an indexed journal, sometimes I still find it difficult to obtain access to an article. Single access charges tend to be high but I doubt very much that they make any contribution to the cost of research, as was suggested above. Generally the easiest and cheapest way of accessing a wide range of scientific journals and their contents is by a library subscription.

Tim.

Re: how to get this pdf ????

SteveOwen — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 14:44:47 GMT

I can't help it if that's how you interpret it. You have to accept that things don't always come across how they are intended on the Internet and you have to allow for that.

Re: how to get this pdf ????

katja wagner — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 14:33:15 GMT

[quote user="SteveOwen"]Katya - read my comment above.

[/quote]

Steve its Katja not Katya and I have read your comment ,still has a patronising wiff.

katja

Re: how to get this pdf ????

SteveOwen — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 14:27:18 GMT

Katya - read my comment above.

Re: how to get this pdf ????

katja wagner — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 14:05:18 GMT

Answers like Steve Owens are why i stopped posting on this forum ,makes my blood boil!

somebody asks for help and gets a patronising kick in the teeth!

katja

Re: how to get this pdf ????

SteveOwen — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 12:47:18 GMT

I wasn't sneering. I was excusing my earlier comment. I had presumed he knew how to access papers so was trying to bypass paying for access. It annoys me when people do this as it stifles veterinary research, which there is little money in as it is. I pay for my journal access, so should others. But if the OP just didn't know how to access a paper, my sincere apologies. I do wonder what he was taught at vet school though. I wouldn't have got past first year without such an ability, never mind graduated!

Re: how to get this pdf ????

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 12:40:47 GMT

[quote user="SteveOwen"]Hmmm. You are a vet who doesn't know how to access a paper? I find that hard to believe but, ok. [/quote]

Uncalled for. He asked for help.Don't sneer.

Re: how to get this pdf ????

jose targa — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 11:41:48 GMT

Thank you very much Anne!!!!!. Of course this will be useful !!! .

Mr. Owen, keep calm, i´ll pay for this too jajajajajaja

Re: how to get this pdf ????

Anne Seawright — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 11:13:03 GMT

This might also be useful. Srugo, I., Chai, O., Yaakov, D., Sharon, L. and Shamir, M. H. (2010), Successful medical management of lumbar intervertebral disc prolapse in a ferret. Journal of Small Animal Practice, 51: 447–450. doi: 10.1111/j.1748-5827.2010.00964.x