In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:39:43 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]Price - cat £15, dogs from £28 (depending on size but not breed weighted).[/quote]

until the dog gets to 10 years old - when the premium goes up by £10.50 per month!

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Rob Loxley — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 21:48:31 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]in recent years the amount of work done has increased massively for almost all conditions so putting pressure on the Plan's pot of money and pushing up premiums - only time will tell if this is sustainable[/quote]

Well as some of the big underwriters have been pulling out of the pet insurance market over recent months, I'd be worried about this

[quote user="David Mills"]Given that the majority of pets won't exceed in insurance claims the amount paid in premiums, it's likely a winner.[/quote]

What's the average return on a pet insurance book? Essentially the practice is now underwriting the risk of the claims exceeding the premiums

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]

If interested, read it for yourselves:

http://www.wheelhousevets.co.uk/wccms-resources/f/9/8/2/fa5dafc2-86ae-11e0-a685-0050568626ea.pdf

[/quote]

I see you only fully cover the 1st 6 months of longterm medications, then 50% contribution, but overall if I were your client I would probably be interested

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Gerry Henry — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 21:47:34 GMT

Thanks Sarah, that's been a big help; like your avatar BTW, very Vogue or Country Life or something like that !

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Sarah Keir — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 19:13:48 GMT

Ooooo, a can of worms!

'Excess' - means no extra trivial things, beyond what would happen anyway. But in this day and age any reason for a foot-fall through the practice should be welcomed with open arms.

OOH - forgot to put on that the owners still pay the OOH call out fee plus the excess - most do not abuse this and those that say 'it doesn't matter how much it costs' were going to call you out anyway. We still do nearly all of our own OOH work - but not Saturday or Sunday nights as we are open all day Saturday AND Sunday and the poor wee vet needs a rest!

Price - cat £15, dogs from £28 (depending on size but not breed weighted).

Conflict of interest - potential for but the owner is paying for a good/gold standard and know this is how the practice operates so that is what is offered. The referral bit is bit more tricky as I alluded to in earlier posting due to restriction of £2500. The Healthcare Plan operates separate to the practice and the practice 'bills' the Plan for the work carried out, therefore cutting corners to reduce bills is not in the practices interests. The bosses see the overall picture of the Plan and the pot of money and at the end of the year work out how much they need to put up premiums to keep the pot the same. Unfortunately in recent years the amount of work done has increased massively for almost all conditions so putting pressure on the Plan's pot of money and pushing up premiums - only time will tell if this is sustainable. But that is the boss's headache, not mine - as the clinician, I do what I see fit (obviously in discussion with owner).

Demanders - you're always going to get them. We are in a service industry so get over it. I actually find that the balance is in the opposite direction, trying to convince people to do the blood test/chemo/dental even if the Healthcare Plan will pay for it!

If interested, read it for yourselves:

http://www.wheelhousevets.co.uk/wccms-resources/f/9/8/2/fa5dafc2-86ae-11e0-a685-0050568626ea.pdf

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Richard Carter — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:20:25 GMT

Need a certain no. of clients to get the ball rolling - have worked in a large practice about 5 years ago where a scheme worked very well - for the price of a monthly insurance premium clients got free frontline for year, worming 2x year and vacc included. There was a levy of the first £30.00 per new condition, £100 if a referral to specialist. The total amount was capped per dog or cat at £4.5k.

On positives - cash flow stabilised, regular income in excess of amounts paid out; clients bonded to practice; pets getting good work-up and treatment.

Negatives - lots of admin, chasing up defaulting clients to check if on or off the scheme, 2 or 3 big cost referrals at same time could bust the pot.

Cannot remember anyone accusing us of not giving good value for money spent but we were very careful to always refer to it as a health care plan rather than insurance as this would require registration.

May be able to still put you in contact with the person who developed and implimented the scheme if you interested.

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Gerry Henry — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:01:54 GMT

[quote user="Rob Davis"]

I don't see how one can avoid a conflict of interests with this type of scheme. However honest and fair you are, there is always the possibility for accusations to be made that you should have done x, y or z but you didn't because it would have cost you too much.

[/quote]

Same applies in reverse to insured pets, yes it does, you know it does.

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Gerry Henry — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:00:17 GMT

[quote user="Eamon McAllister"]

Will this "gold standard" care include an in house 24/7 emergency service? If so then I would expect the insured clients to call out of hours at the slightest excuse and demand to be seen. If not the case and they are referred to an expensive OOH provider then I would anticipate a lot of complaints. Problems,problems.

[/quote]

Trained my clients to ask politely, not demand; the 'demanders' get shown the door, there's just no need for it, anyhow I like to think we go the extra mile which pre-empts demands. No, no in-house hosp but taken by Vet Ambulance (ours, DVLA approved too) to Vets Now 5 minutes away. We'll have to agree on a fee.

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

David Mills — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 17:52:14 GMT

[quote user="Eamon McAllister"]

[/quote]

Not sure about this. Thought Sarah had made it clear that the in-house one they run carries an 'excess' just like any claim, so it would be fine for people to demand to be seen, but there would still be a charge; assume the OPs would be the same. So it would simply be a substitute type of insurance (w/out 3rd party), but administered through the practice, and it would be an easy 'sell' if the premiums were lower, and terms more generous.

Given that the majority of pets won't exceed in insurance claims the amount paid in premiums, it's likely a winner.

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Eamon McAllister — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 16:06:43 GMT

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Rob Loxley — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:40:33 GMT

Something like a PDSA scheme where you get a contribution per pet, but hopefully a larger pot of money? Sounds attractive but the figures really need to make sense.

Is there a risk of it being in the practice's interest to cut corners on diagnosis and treatment?
How do you avoid having to cut corners if the pot runs low?
As time goes on, those healthy young animals that started will get older, and the demands on the pot will change?
You seem to have a very large potential liability if say a number of animals have nasty RTAs or develop expensive chronic diseases in quick succession, by bad luck? I.e. does the risk balance out the benefits?
Will you cover 3rd party liability?
Who is going to administer the scheme? What are the requirements e.g. FSA approval needed?

At least the insurance companies spread the risk amongst a large number of people to make the book more predictable.

AFAIK there are some companies offering to help set up and run such schemes (e.g. http://www.totalvetinsurance.co.uk/page/vetsure-cover-care.html - no interest or recommendation, just one I've seen advertised)

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Rob Davis — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:28:11 GMT

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Gerry Henry — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:12:31 GMT

Sarah would you be able to let me know what the price(s) of the health care plan is; PM me if you prefer, I'd be most grateful

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Sarah Keir — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 11:52:57 GMT

We have an in-house 'Healthcare Plan' - 25% off vaccinations and dentals, all work within practice (except for first £70 of each condition = "excess") is covered and upto £2500 for referral for the life-time of the animal. Premiums do not go up with age but they do go up in line with 'inflation' and if all is fine on the intial joining check up (FOC) then no exclusions.

Positives - owners don't have to worry about paperwork as we do it automatically within the practice; prices don't go up with age of animal and we still accept older pets as long as currently well;

Negatives - premiums are on a par with the best insurance packages out there but without the high limit on big referrals or for multiple referrals (down here in the SE that £2500 doesn't go very far); in the past few years we have become more proactive on the health front (e.g. regular bloods for long-term NSAID users) which costs the Healthcare Plan more which is pushing up premiums - but Os expect this 'gold standard' of care, after all they are paying for it, aren't they?; referrals have to be OKed by the boss who is the 'administrator' of the Healthcare Plan (though usually not a problem); only covers for work in this practice or somewhere that the animal has been referred to - so difficult when O's take pets on holidays.

That's all I can think of for now but at the moment I struggle to recommend the Plan to clients - I advise they need to carefully think if it is the best thing for them. As to the legal standing, I'm sure the practice has looked into it and when we promote it we have to make it clear it is NOT an insurance policy, there is not third party (by the way Dogs Trust do third party for very reasonable fee).

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Gerry Henry — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 11:29:29 GMT

Yes I take your points; would like to think that when needed, gold star is what's on offer

Re: In House Practice Insurance/Assurance

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 10:31:56 GMT

Cynicalviewpoint but everyone is likely to be bringing all sorts of trivial things in,and even if you just do a clinical examination and say "he'll be fine in a day or 2 " you're going to be rushed off your feet-also more owners will DEMAND gold star treatment (as they've paid for it up-front ) so unless you're going toend uplosing money,your premium willhave to be comparable with that of the insurence companies

Also I'm uncertain of the legal position with regard to financialservices authority

Wynne